HMS Bounty in trouble... - Page 132 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Vessels Lost, Missing, or in Danger
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree718Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1311  
Old 12-12-2012
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post
If you go back to the first tall ship race in 1956 you will see the people who organized the race saw it was very popular and formed a new organization. From there the whole tall ship genre has seen quite an evolution but somewhere in this loose classification that now exists was, most likely, profit motive.

..
I guess that is profit indeed the only justification to call small sailingboats tall ships.

The first race that gave the name to the tall ships was meant to be a revival of the big sailing ships of the past. The original race had two classes, that were maintained for some time: Ships with more than 100T and sailing boats with less. However there were no small sailing boats boats involved on these races and the smaller boats were never called ships or tall ships.

The qualification of Tall Ships appeared in the press to qualify the big ships with hugely tall rigs, the ones of the the bigger class.

Today thew want the biggest possible number of entries in Tall ship races so besides the original Tall ship class they opened the races and participation to practically any boat, even aluminum boats.

For having the boast racing a tall boat ship race the vessels have to be tall ships even if they are small sailing boats. That's pretty ridiculous but what they want is the biggest possible number of entries, ships or small boats alike.

Tall Ship as a qualification for a sailing ship refers to the original meaning, those big sailing ships that raced on the first race, a legacy of the working ships of the past.

Wikipedia explains it well:

A tall ship is a large, traditionally-rigged sailing vessel. Popular modern tall ship rigs include topsail schooners, brigantines, brigs and barques. ...

While Sail Training International (STI) has extended the definition of tall ship for the purpose of its races to embrace any sailing vessel with more than 30 ft (9.14 m) waterline length and on which at least half the people on board are aged 15 to 25, this definition can include many modern sailing yachts, so for the purposes of this article, tall ship will mainly refer to those vessels rated as class "A".

Class A
All square – rigged vessels (barque, barquentine, brig, brigantine or ship rigged) and all other vessel more than 40 metres Length Overall (LOA), regardless of rig. STI classifies its A Class as "all square-rigged vessels and all other vessels over 40 metres (131 ft) length overall (LOA)", in this case STI LOA excludes bowsprit and aft spar. STI defines LOA as "Length overall measured from the fore side of stem post to aft side of stern post, counter or transom"



This are what for wikipedia are Ships that can qualify has Tall Ships. This makes sense. They have also a list of Tall Ships.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 12-12-2012 at 07:32 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1312  
Old 12-12-2012
casey1999's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: HI
Posts: 2,845
Thanks: 4
Thanked 17 Times in 17 Posts
Rep Power: 4
casey1999 is on a distinguished road
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

PCP,
Thanks for posting Wikipedia article. The lost ships section was interesting. Go to site and click on the ships names for more details:

Lost tall shipsTall ships are sometimes lost, such as by a storm at sea. Some examples of this include:

Bounty full-rig ship lost off the North Carolina coast as Hurricane Sandy approached in 2012.

Concordia was a triple mast Barquentine built in 1992, operated by Canada as a school ship. Lost at sea in 2010 in a squall.

Asgard II, an Irish national sail training ship, commissioned in 1982, was lost in 2008 off the French coast. The 2-masted brigantine is thought to have collided with a submerged object.

Fantome a former yacht built in 1927, then operating as a cruise ship was lost in Hurricane Mitch in 1998.[5]

Marques, built in 1917, it was lost in a 1984 Tall Ships Race.

This is interesting of the Fantome's fate:
http://www.fortogden.com/fantommiamiherald.html
PCP likes this.

Last edited by casey1999; 12-12-2012 at 08:12 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1313  
Old 12-12-2012
JulieMor's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 853
Thanks: 47
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 4
JulieMor is on a distinguished road
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sparklepl3nty View Post
Julie, you might be pleased to know Lady Washington played the Interceptor in that scene (historicalseaport dot org)
Did you crew Lady Washington?
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1314  
Old 12-12-2012
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
....
This is interesting of the Fantome's fate:

The loss of the Windjammer Schooner, Fantome
Thanks for posting. Great reading...and sad luck the one of all those guys.

At least this Captain was trying to evade a Hurricane, not sailing into one

Regards

Paulo
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1315  
Old 12-12-2012
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Breckenridge, CO
Posts: 25
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
sparklepl3nty is on a distinguished road
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post
Did you crew Lady Washington?
I did, actually. She was my first ship.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1316  
Old 12-13-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,515
Thanks: 0
Thanked 118 Times in 105 Posts
Rep Power: 4
JonEisberg will become famous soon enough
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Thanks for posting. Great reading...and sad luck the one of all those guys.

At least this Captain was trying to evade a Hurricane, not sailing into one

Regards

Paulo
THE SHIP AND THE STORM is a riveting read, highly recommended...

I thought I had mentioned the loss of the FANTOME previously re the unpredictability of late-season hurricanes originating in the Western Caribbean, but I see now that I had not... But certainly, every tall ship captain would have been familiar with the story, and the surreal manner in which Mitch literally stalked, and then killed, the FANTOME... Only furthers one's bewilderment at Walbridge's decision to attempt to outwit another late-season storm spawned in roughly the same area as Mitch...



Some may recall that the Caribbean 1500 rally wound up getting hammered pretty good that year, as well... 2 boats were abandoned, fortunately without any loss of life... But, the historical unpredictability of storms like Lenny, Mitch, Wilma, and now Sandy, really highlights the risks of making the passage from the east coast to the islands, while ANYTHING of a tropical nature might be brewing in the Western Caribbean... Mitch literally came back from the dead, to take a shot at the fleet of boats headed to the islands that fall. Charlie Doane's account of how the rally fleet dealt with the remnants of Mitch is a worthwhile read, as well:

Quote:

"To tell you the truth, we were worried about Mitch from the very beginning," she exclaimed. "If we hadn't been in the rally, we would have never left in the first place."

HEAVY-WEATHER SAILING: Remembering Hurricane Mitch
PCP and casey1999 like this.

Last edited by JonEisberg; 12-13-2012 at 12:53 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1317  
Old 12-13-2012
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,166
Thanks: 21
Thanked 96 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
THE SHIP AND THE STORM is a riveting read, highly recommended...

...
Some may recall that the Caribbean 1500 rally wound up getting hammered pretty good that year, as well... 2 boats were abandoned, fortunately without any loss of life... But, the historical unpredictability of storms like Lenny, Mitch, Wilma, and now Sandy, really highlights the risks of making the passage from the east coast to the islands, while ANYTHING of a tropical nature might be brewing in the Western Caribbean... Mitch literally came back from the dead, to take a shot at the fleet of boats headed to the islands that fall. Charlie Doane's account of how the rally fleet dealt with the remnants of Mitch is a worthwhile read, as well:

HEAVY-WEATHER SAILING: Remembering Hurricane Mitch
Thanks for posting, also a great reading.

Regards

Paulo
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1318  
Old 12-13-2012
chef2sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,964
Thanks: 29
Thanked 54 Times in 50 Posts
Rep Power: 7
chef2sail will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieMor View Post
If you go back to the first tall ship race in 1956 you will see the people who organized the race saw it was very popular and formed a new organization. From there the whole tall ship genre has seen quite an evolution but somewhere in this loose classification that now exists was, most likely, profit motive.
Maybe that was some of it, as money is behind lots of motivations, but I think it was also part of motivation was insure the viability of their organization and "grow" it so to speak to increase the participants. Maybe for money, but maybe also to embrace the "old era of sailing" amongst more people. If it remained just these huge ships the organization would just stayed a small finite number. The other other smaller Tall Ships which were part of the era and design of Tall Ships would be shut out or formed their own orgnization, which would have been much larger.

There is a large educational/ experience component in this organization also and it encouraged oppertunities to a large group.

When they have their races between Tall Ships, they came up with the classification system and had some way of comparing like ships with like ships, just as we do today with the modern classifications.

The motivation for the different classes is contained in the this statement

Quote:
A tall ship is not a strictly defined type of sailing vessel. Most of us use the term to mean a large traditionally rigged sailing vessel, whether or not it is technically a “ship”. The United States Coast Guard’s training ship Eagle, for example, is technically a “barque”. A tall ship can also be a schooner, brigantine, barquentine, brig, ketch, sloop, or a full-rigged ship depending on the number of masts and the cut of the sails.

For the purposes of classification and race rating, Tall Ships America adheres to the descriptions found in the Racing and Sailing Rules and Special Regulations established by Sail Training International.

CLASS A
All square-rigged vessels and all other vessels over 40m (131 feet) length overall (LOA)

CLASS B
Traditional-rigged vessels with a LOA of less than 40m (131 feet) and with a waterline length (LWL) of at least 9.14m (30 feet).

CLASS C
Modern-rigged vessels with a LOA of less than 40m (131 feet) and with a LWL of at least 9.14m (30 feet), not carrying spinnaker-like sails.

CLASS D
Modern-rigged vessels with a LOA of less than 40m (131 feet) and with a LWL of at least 9.14m (30 feet), carrying spinnaker-like sails.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1319  
Old 12-15-2012
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 20
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
Bountydaughter is on a distinguished road
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

There is a lot of speculation and opinion circulating in this thread. I am very disconcerted by some of the comments regarding the Tall Ship organization and the embellishment of the condition of the Bounty. I have spoken to many former crew members and all have stated love and respect for Captain Walbridge. Many have told me " I would sail with him any day" or "I let my son or daughter sail with him without question". I' m sure if you ask the almost 200 former crew members who attended a memorial for the Captain and the ship, they would all say the same thing. As for not wanting to say something due to fear of being blackballed; why make the effort to say good things then? I would think if they felt negative things they would just say nothing at all or just say " yes, I knew him".
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #1320  
Old 12-15-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 8,960
Thanks: 10
Thanked 135 Times in 121 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bountydaughter View Post
There is a lot of speculation and opinion circulating in this thread.
Sure is and everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Quote:
I am very disconcerted by some of the comments regarding the Tall Ship organization and the embellishment of the condition of the Bounty. I have spoken to many former crew members and all have stated love and respect for Captain Walbridge.
Not sure if you meant to combine these two thoughts. The TSC and condition have no relationship to former crew and their disparate thoughts are not mutually exclusive.

Quote:
Many have told me " I would sail with him any day" or "I let my son or daughter sail with him without question". I' m sure if you ask the almost 200 former crew members who attended a memorial for the Captain and the ship, they would all say the same thing.
My favorite teacher, as a grammar school kid, let us get away with anything. Did that make him a good teacher, because we all liked him? There are plenty of good, evil, competent and incompetent people throughout history with adoring followers. Again, the fact that crew like the guy has absolutely nothing to do with whether he was a good decision maker or a good Captain.
PCP and jameswilson29 like this.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rhodes Bounty ll white rabbit Introduce Yourself 3 07-13-2014 05:00 AM
New Member - Hardin 45 ( 44 voyager bounty ) Bianchi Introduce Yourself 9 01-29-2011 09:33 PM
HELP!! , Need move a boat NC to WA (Rhodes Bounty II, 40'10 x 28' x 10'3" x 5'9") sailandoar General Discussion (sailing related) 1 08-23-2006 01:11 PM
Bounty Windjammer Spectacle (Boothbay Register) NewsReader News Feeds 0 06-23-2006 03:15 PM
April 28, 1789, Aboard the HMS Bounty: NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 04-28-2006 01:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:29 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.