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  #1321  
Old 12-15-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bountydaughter View Post
I have spoken to many former crew members and all have stated love and respect for Captain Walbridge. Many have told me " I would sail with him any day" or "I let my son or daughter sail with him without question". I' m sure if you ask the almost 200 former crew members who attended a memorial for the Captain and the ship, they would all say the same thing.
Are you certain "they would all say the same thing" AFTER he sailed his ship and crew straight into a major hurricane???

If so, while admiring their loyalty and friendship, such folks are mired in some serious denial, if not downright divorced from reality...
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  #1322  
Old 12-15-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

I suggest that you guys lay off of Bountydaughter. It would appear from her userID and posts that she is a close friend or family of the deceased. She has suffered a loss and needs to grieve. Let her state her opinions without challenge - it is probably an important part of her grieving process.

The captain paid the ultimate price for his misjudgement. Let's not go punishing his friends and family too. Do the classy thing and lay off.
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  #1323  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
I suggest that you guys lay off of Bountydaughter. It would appear from her userID and posts that she is a close friend or family of the deceased. She has suffered a loss and needs to grieve. Let her state her opinions without challenge - it is probably an important part of her grieving process.

The captain paid the ultimate price for his misjudgement. Let's not go punishing his friends and family too. Do the classy thing and lay off.
Well said, you're probably right, of course...

My apologies for the tone of my post above...
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  #1324  
Old 12-15-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Looking for evidence of Bounty sailing on another Hurricanes I found some references of having sailing one back in 1992 and looking better I found this report that is quite amazing:

When the Bounty was in Miami safely moored at the dock the Coast Guard, with Hurricane Andrew bearing down and fearing the ship would destroy the docks and the Miami waterfront, ordered the crew of two to sail the ship or they were going to drill holes in the hull and sink her at the dock to prevent damage to the port of Miami. The crew got another three volunteer crewmembers and sailed the Bounty into the violent seas and winds of one of the most destructive hurricanes in recorded history. The Bounty survived the ordeal. The waterfront of Miami survived the storm as well.

Read more: GUEST OPINION: Bounty's crew faced a dilemma: Sail or seek safe harbor? - Taunton, MA - The Taunton Daily Gazette

This is true? What would have happened to those that have ordered the boat out with a crew of 5 if the boat had sunk that time and lives had been lost?

....
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  #1325  
Old 12-15-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

This is the one time Captain that sailed on that occasion talking.... and I am even more amazed:

In the 1980s, Hausman sold his business and began taking courses for his captain’s license.

A couple of years later, while working part time on boats in Miami, he was hired by the Bounty’s owners to sail the ship while Hurricane Andrew took aim at South Florida.
...
During Hurricane Andrew the sail plan was to go south as far as necessary. When the hurricane hit shore, the ship was about 50 miles south of it, said Hausman, who estimated there were 80- to 100-mph winds and 15- to 25-foot waves for about an hour and a half. The crew headed east until the hurricane passed before returning to Miami.

In that case, “it was a textbook situation,” Hausman said. As long as the ship could maintain the proper orientation in relation to the hurricane and no major mechanical problems occurred, he knew they were going to succeed.
His crew consisted of five volunteers — two of whom had adequate knowledge about sailing and three who didn’t.

Hausman said that, as captain, the responsibility is significant, but the crew’s efforts are vital.
“It all falls on you,” he said. “You just need to know about everything that could possibly happen.”
But he said the veterans help out the less experienced sailors — after all, everyone is in the same boat.

“You depend on the crew as much as they depend on you,” Hausman said.
Even with the rough conditions, the Harbor Hills resident said he didn’t have time to be nervous. He had experienced much worse weather, albeit on smaller ships..
Being out at sea on a wooden ship going 12 knots being propelled by the wind was an adventure, Hausman added. But he is quick to point out he wasn’t in it for the thrill of the ride.

“For me, it was really a matter of saving the ship,” he said."




and then referring to Bounty's accident and Hurricane Sandy he says:



Mistakes in a superstorm:

When reflecting on the Bounty’s recent sinking, Hausman said he doesn’t believe that only one error leads to a disaster at sea, he said.

“There’s always a series of bad choices, a series of problems that finally do you in,” Hausman said. “Sometimes, it just can’t be helped.”

Hausman has pinpointed what he knows of the Bounty’s route according to reports on a large sailing map, to try to discover what could have happened to lead the crew to abandon ship.

Considering the magnitude of Sandy, Hausman said he didn’t think it was the best plan to take the Bounty out to sea in the first place. He said it might have been a better idea to secure it to a dock.

Hausman said he thinks the captain may have underestimated the magnitude of the storm.
“(Walbridge) being a captain of the Bounty for 17 years, it was a judgment call I’m sure,” Hausman said. “It’s going to boil down to that. I think he misread how big Sandy was."


One-time captain of HMS Bounty reflects on tall ship's sinking - The Villages Daily Sun: Villages


For what I can understand this one time "Captain" without knowing the Ship with some helping hands, half of them with no experience took the Bounty out to escape Hurricane Andrews in 80/100 MPH winds with 25ft seas and finds himself qualified to find that this time should have stayed in Port?

Not that I do not agree with him but after what seem to me a crazy stunt like the one he describes he doesn't seem to have much moral to judge others for doing about the same he had done.


....

Last edited by PCP; 12-15-2012 at 10:24 PM.
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  #1326  
Old 12-15-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
I suggest that you guys lay off of Bountydaughter. It would appear from her userID and posts that she is a close friend or family of the deceased. She has suffered a loss and needs to grieve. Let her state her opinions without challenge - it is probably an important part of her grieving process.

The captain paid the ultimate price for his misjudgement. Let's not go punishing his friends and family too. Do the classy thing and lay off.
Good post Rick. I see that Jon is a gentleman
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  #1327  
Old 12-16-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
I suggest that you guys lay off of Bountydaughter. It would appear from her userID and posts that she is a close friend or family of the deceased. She has suffered a loss and needs to grieve. Let her state her opinions without challenge - it is probably an important part of her grieving process.

The captain paid the ultimate price for his misjudgement. Let's not go punishing his friends and family too. Do the classy thing and lay off.
You may be right, but I have two suggestions. First, if true, Bountydaughter should make that relationship clear. I can't take every screen name literally, as most are not intended that way. Second, I would never voluntarily walk into a 1300 post conversation like this and take on the crowd, while I was morning the loss of a close relative or friend. That's not healthy.

This discussion has not been strictly about the Capt anyway. Its been about a culture that seemed to exist that all should learn from. A boat that had sailed into hurricanes before, so one might process the risk incorrectly. A glimpse into what you might do, if presented with that opportunity to leave the boat, when your friends might pull off the voyage. Good discussion over whether these relics should be allowed to sail with bare bones inexperienced crew in horrific conditions without the same inspections as a commercial vessel.

While there are those that are very sensitive to the reputation and loss of the Captain, that is only a part of the thread. For one, I have no desire to confront the Capt's family, for I have great sympathy for their loss. However, we can not silence the discussion on legitimate issues. Unlike a discussion in a bar, where I believe everyone would pause for the Capt's daughter to pass, one can't know who is nearby here. I think those that do know they would be sensitive have the obligation to give way. It's the same reason that I don't read or post in the PRWG forum. I'm sure there are discussions that would boil my blood and the posters could not appreciate why.
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  #1328  
Old 12-16-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

I doubt a trained therapist could even guess what would be the best way for a particular individual to work out her grief. Obviously she voluntarily chose to participate in a particularly heated discussion about a controversial topic. No one is forcing her to post here.

Perhaps challenging her irrational beliefs will help her recover from this atrocity, and save her life someday in the future. I would assume she is not a family member, but is merely a former crew/cult member based on her apparent departure from reality and lack of logic in reasoning.

Here is the irrational thought process (which some of the Sailnet members seem to have adopted too):

1. Capt. Walbridge was experienced, well-liked and respected.

2. His crew would follow him anywhere. (And we should respect their opinion even though most on this listserv have more sailing and boat maintenance experience. [Riding as a passenger on a ship in the ocean and pulling on a halyard when instructed does not qualify one for much of anything].)

3. Therefore, Capt. Walbridge could not have done anything as monumentally stupid and reckless as sailing a poorly-maintained movie prop out into one of the largest storms in maritime history against the better judgment of almost every experienced mariner and professional captain with an ounce of common sense, thus causing the death of one innocent woman in his care and endangering dozens of people.

4. If only we could blame or invent something other than his obviously poor judgment as the root cause of this atrocity, thus we need to wait for the results of an investigation.
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Last edited by jameswilson29; 12-16-2012 at 07:30 AM.
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  #1329  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

I am not trying to "silence the discussion." I am merely suggesting that you not respond directly to her posts.

Are your really that desperate to pick a fight with this person? Is it really so important to you that you can't let a single person state her opinion without refuting it directly (including quoting her own words)?
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
You may be right, but I have two suggestions. First, if true, Bountydaughter should make that relationship clear. I can't take every screen name literally, as most are not intended that way. Second, I would never voluntarily walk into a 1300 post conversation like this and take on the crowd, while I was morning the loss of a close relative or friend. That's not healthy.

This discussion has not been strictly about the Capt anyway. Its been about a culture that seemed to exist that all should learn from. A boat that had sailed into hurricanes before, so one might process the risk incorrectly. A glimpse into what you might do, if presented with that opportunity to leave the boat, when your friends might pull off the voyage. Good discussion over whether these relics should be allowed to sail with bare bones inexperienced crew in horrific conditions without the same inspections as a commercial vessel.

While there are those that are very sensitive to the reputation and loss of the Captain, that is only a part of the thread. For one, I have no desire to confront the Capt's family, for I have great sympathy for their loss. However, we can not silence the discussion on legitimate issues. Unlike a discussion in a bar, where I believe everyone would pause for the Capt's daughter to pass, one can't know who is nearby here. I think those that do know they would be sensitive have the obligation to give way. It's the same reason that I don't read or post in the PRWG forum. I'm sure there are discussions that would boil my blood and the posters could not appreciate why.

While everything you say is valid. Rick ( Takefive) asked that you lay off the poster. Not the thread. So with due respect here lay of her.
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