HMS Bounty in trouble... - Page 136 - SailNet Community
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post #1351 of 1950 Old 12-16-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I am very sorry for your loss.

I don't remember that someone had said here that he was a stupid man. Clearly he was not. I believe that what was said was that he had taken a stupid decision. That does not mean that he was stupid. Even the brighter of men sometime does stupid things.

A stupid mistake means a foolish or careless mistake.



An inexplicable decision is many times a foolish one, otherwise it would have a rational explanation.

Regarding Bounty's Captain (we are not here talking about the man, that as was said by many, I am sure was a great human being) but about his behavior as a Captain and the term egotistical has to do with that condition, I mean while Captain.

I believe that the term Egotiscal was used in a sense that means: A boastful Captain and that seems to correspond to the image that he gave from himself on that video were he talks about chasing Hurricanes. Most of us believed that he was boasting. Do you believe that he was speaking truly about that?



Off course both statements are opinions and as such can not correspond to the truth but that I think acceptable in what regards what we know about the facts.

Regards

Paulo
I do not believe egotistical described him as a captain. He was experienced and knowledgeable but not to the point of conceit. Was he confident? Yes, again not to the point of egotistical. I had posted previously:
"Anyone that knew Robin and watched that interview knew that he was poking fun at that reporter. His "chasing hurricanes" comment has been completely taken out of context. That was his sense of humor. As far as his stating there is no bad weather only different kinds, he did truly believe that. Weather was something you could manage. He had sailed in all different kinds of weather and up to this point, successfully. As far as that interview, if this incident had not happened no one except people that watch public access tv in Maine would have ever seen it." Boastful was also not a term to describe Robin either as a man or a captain.
People make decisions based on past experience and presumed ability all the time. Sometimes bad things happen and it does not have to do with being egotistical or stupid decision making. For example, I live in New England and it snows here. There are times when it snows very hard and the state "recommends" that drivers stay off the roads. Many people make a decision to drive anyway based on what they think the conditions of the roads are, their previous experience with driving in the snow and their confidence in their driving abilities. If the decision is made to drive to work, the store or whatever does that make that person reckless and egotistical? Confidence does not equal ego.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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You are right, it is trashing you. But chef2sail was quoting someone else's prior comment as an example of inappropriate statements.

If you read over the hundreds of pages on this thead, you'll see that a few people (chef2sail, me, and a few others) have been suggesting to people that the uninformed speculation is hurtful and counterproductive, and urging some patience for the true facts of the USCG investigation to emerge in their future report.

I do believe that new facts could create a fuller context that may provide more understanding of his thinking at the time.
You are correct and I apologize to chef2sail. I did see that he quoted that from another post. So although it should not have been addressed to chef2sail the response remains appropriate to the quote.
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post #1353 of 1950 Old 12-16-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

I'm sorry for you loss Shelly. While I haven't posted much on this thread but the posts that I've made have been critical of the entire episode.....and for that I apoligize. For I too have a daugher by the name of Shelley(with and e) and I would not want her to hear negative things about me should I die in a sailing adventrue, mountain climbing or even riding my mountain bike here in the mountains of NC.

I saw the interview on the Weather Channel of three of the survivors and I was impressed by the engineer Barksdale. You can tell a lot about a person by their friends and if Barksdale was an example then your Dad was a fine person and will be missed by many.
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post #1354 of 1950 Old 12-16-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Thanks, Shelly. Are you aware of any pressure applied by the owner of the vessel or a deadline of any kind to make this voyage?
I have also heard that rumor but have not been able to confirm. Robin made no mention of it when he spoke to my mother before leaving. Do I think it could be true? I don't know. I don't think so, but opinion on my part.
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post #1355 of 1950 Old 12-16-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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I'm sorry for you loss Shelly. While I haven't posted much on this thread but the posts that I've made have been critical of the entire episode.....and for that I apoligize. For I too have a daugher by the name of Shelley(with and e) and I would not want her to hear negative things about me should I die in a sailing adventrue, mountain climbing or even riding my mountain bike here in the mountains of NC.

I saw the interview on the Weather Channel of three of the survivors and I was impressed by the engineer Barksdale. You can tell a lot about a person by their friends and if Barksdale was an example then your Dad was a fine person and will be missed by many.
Thank you.
I am not naive enough to think people wont say negative things which is why I feel the need to defend when I can. I know people are going to question and blame, it is human nature. If I can correct any misconceptions then I feel I am honoring my stepfather and protecting my mother.
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post #1356 of 1950 Old 12-16-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Robin is not able to answer any of these questions so I feel the need to be his voice if I can.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Has anyone sued or asserted a claim against the estate arising from the incident?
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Has anyone sued or asserted a claim against the estate arising from the incident?
I have heard that the parents of Claudene Christian are planning to file against the Bounty organization/owner. I do not know if it has or will happen though.
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post #1359 of 1950 Old 12-16-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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I do not believe egotistical described him as a captain. He was experienced and knowledgeable but not to the point of conceit. Was he confident? Yes, again not to the point of egotistical. I had posted previously:
"Anyone that knew Robin and watched that interview knew that he was poking fun at that reporter. His "chasing hurricanes" comment has been completely taken out of context. That was his sense of humor. As far as his stating there is no bad weather only different kinds, he did truly believe that. Weather was something you could manage. He had sailed in all different kinds of weather and up to this point, successfully. As far as that interview, if this incident had not happened no one except people that watch public access tv in Maine would have ever seen it." Boastful was also not a term to describe Robin either as a man or a captain.
To poke with someone is alright, to poke with a reporter conducting and interview that is going to the press and is going to be posted on the social media, the way he had done, about things that define him as a Captain, is just absurd. He defined himself as a Captain that says that bad weather does not exist, that likes to chase hurricanes and have a good ride out of them, not only to the reporter but to the thousands of people that would see that interview. This don't seem to make sense to me, unless he was boasting.

You say that he is poking, well, that is your opinion, I find it hard to believe that someone is poking not only with a guy but with the thousands that would see and read that interview. I believe that the term boasting is more appropriated, but off course that is just my opinion.

But that is not the only time I find that he was boasting. I believe also that he was boasting when he wrote that the "Bounty new no boundaries" or when he said that a XVIII century designed wooden ship would be safer facing an Hurricane on the sea than in a Port.

Again that is just my opinion based mainly in the almost complete incomprehension that other Tall ship captains have shown by his decision to sail out. I assume that Bounty's Captain knew that he was taking a considerable risk taking Bounty out of Port and sailing towards an Hurricane.

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Originally Posted by Bountydaughter View Post

People make decisions based on past experience and presumed ability all the time. Sometimes bad things happen and it does not have to do with being egotistical or stupid decision making. For example, I live in New England and it snows here. There are times when it snows very hard and the state "recommends" that drivers stay off the roads. Many people make a decision to drive anyway based on what they think the conditions of the roads are, their previous experience with driving in the snow and their confidence in their driving abilities. If the decision is made to drive to work, the store or whatever does that make that person reckless and egotistical? Confidence does not equal ego.
Bounty's Captain was a professional mariner and had lives to his care. His decision to leave port in that Ship sailing towards an Hurricane was unanimously criticized by all professional mariner community even before the boat being lost.

A professional captain does not take risks with the lives of his crew. Obviously that was what the bounty Captain had done. Again, it is not me stating that, is all marine professional community that says that what he had done was wrong. If that does not make it a one time foolish decision it would make it a behavior of a Captain that had unfounded confidence in the seaworthiness of his ship and on his own capacities to manage all kind of weather.

I believe you are more qualified than all of us put together to judge him like a man but that is not what we are discussing here, but his actions has a Captain and regarding that I don't think you are more qualified than us and you are certainly less than all those tall ship Captains that had already stated what they thought.

I am really sorry to say all this to you, but is just my opinion, that have been expressed already on this thread and I believe that in a discussion we should say what we think. I hope you can understand that.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 12-16-2012 at 03:03 PM.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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To poke with someone is alright, to poke with a reporter conducting and interview that is going to the press and is going to be posted on the social media, the way he had done, about things that define him as a Captain, is just absurd. He defined himself as a Captain that says that bad weather does not exist, that likes to chase hurricanes and have a good ride out of them, not only to the reporter but to the thousands of people that would see that interview. This don't seem to make sense to me, unless he was boasting.

You say that he is poking, well, that is your opinion, I find it hard to believe that someone is poking not only with a guy but with the thousands that would see and read that interview. I believe that the term boasting is more appropriated, but off course that is just my opinion.

But that is not the only time I find that he was boasting. I believe also that he was boasting when he wrote that the "Bounty new no boundaries" or when he said that a XVIII century designed wooden ship would be safer facing an Hurricane on the sea than in a Port.

Again that is just my opinion based mainly in the almost complete incomprehension that other Tall ship captains have shown by his decision to sail out. I assume that Bounty's Captain knew that he was taking a considerable risk taking Bounty out of Port and sailing towards an Hurricane.



Bounty's Captain was a professional mariner and had lives to his care. His decision to leave port in that Ship sailing towards an Hurricane was unanimously criticized by all professional mariner community even before the boat being lost.

A professional captain does not take risks with the lives of his crew. Obviously that was what the bounty Captain had done. Again, it is not me stating that, is all marine professional community that says that what he had done was wrong. If that does not make it a one time foolish decision it would make it a behavior of a Captain that had unfounded confidence in the seaworthiness of his boat and on his own capacities to manage all kind of weather.

I believe you are more qualified than all of us put together to judge him like a man but that is not what we are discussing here, but his actions has a Captain and regarding that I don't think you are more qualified than us and you are certainly less than all those tall ship Captains that had already stated what they thought.

Regards

Paulo
That reporter was from a small public access channel in a small town in Maine. If this incident would not have happened very few people would have actually seen that interview. That interview was not going to press or to social media. Dozens of people would have seen it if this did not happen, most certainly not thousands. The reporter decided to post it to social media after the incident. You cannot judge Robin as boastful from that one interview. It is unfortunate that this reporter felt the need to use this tragedy to publicize himself and all opinions are being based from this one silly interview.
I can tell you judging the man and the captain are not two separate things. I don't know how you feel qualified to judge him as a captain. Yes, this decision went horribly wrong. I will never deny that but people make decisions and sometimes they do not go as we had planned or thought. This does not take away from his capabilities as a captain.
This situation has not been criticized by all of the mariner community. Not ALL tall ship captains have spoken out against his decision. The ones who do speak against him are the ones that get the attention. We can agree to disagree but I do not think that one decision, regardless of the outcome defines a person as reckless, foolish or egotistical. No one will ever know what was exactly going through his mind when he made that decision but I can tell you that it was a thought out decision based on experience. As a man and a captain this is how Robin was.
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