HMS Bounty in trouble... - Page 142 - SailNet Community

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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Vessels Lost, Missing, or in Danger
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  #1411  
Old 12-17-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Re the "Coast Guard would've drilled holes and sunk us at the dock in Miami" idea, I too place more credence on the first-hand account of Capt Hausman who was the skipper then (and didn't mention such a thing, nor going way short-handed either) than on a shoreside guy in a Taunton Mass news article who wasn't there. Hausman said "the plan" was to head out and go way south, which worked, though it sounded like a close one. If he'd been "forced out there" by Coast Guard meanies at the threat of involuntary scuttling, wouldn't he have mentioned it in an interview whose whole point is what a captain has to take into account in making the difficult "sail or stay" decision?

Re alleged Coast Guard meanness with drill bitts, I too doubt this. A Coast Guard Captain of the Port has much discretion under the law, and could direct a vessel to move, or to improve its moorings, but will I think leave ballasting and tactical decisions to the captain.


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  #1412  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nolatom View Post
Re the "Coast Guard would've drilled holes and sunk us at the dock in Miami" idea, I too place more credence on the first-hand account of Capt Hausman who was the skipper then (and didn't mention such a thing, nor going way short-handed either) than on a shoreside guy in a Taunton Mass news article who wasn't there. Hausman said "the plan" was to head out and go way south, which worked, though it sounded like a close one. If he'd been "forced out there" by Coast Guard meanies at the threat of involuntary scuttling, wouldn't he have mentioned it in an interview whose whole point is what a captain has to take into account in making the difficult "sail or stay" decision?

Re alleged Coast Guard meanness with drill bitts, I too doubt this. A Coast Guard Captain of the Port has much discretion under the law, and could direct a vessel to move, or to improve its moorings, but will I think leave ballasting and tactical decisions to the captain.


Full disclosure once again. I'm retired USCGR.
Good point. The more you think about the Coast Guard going and sinking the boat in port, the more stupid it sounds. Whom would pay to remove the sunken ship if they did do that? And the sunken ship at the dock may do the same or more damage than if they left it floating.

I believe the CG drilling holes goes along with the rest of the garbage about how Bounty loves and chases hurricanes.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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....I believe the CG drilling holes goes along with the rest of the garbage about how Bounty loves and chases hurricanes.
Didn't a member of the rescued crew actually affirm that Bounty had sailed near hurricanes before?
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  #1414  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Didn't a member of the rescued crew actually affirm that Bounty had sailed near hurricanes before?
The comment was made, but I believe the statement is open to conjecture.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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The comment was made, but I believe the statement is open to conjecture.
Conjecture is forming a conclusion without complete facts.

The statement by the crew is evidence of the fact that Bounty had sailed in hurricanes. You may not reach a conclusion, but that doesn't dismiss the damning evidence.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Conjecture is forming a conclusion without complete facts.

The statement by the crew is evidence of the fact that Bounty had sailed in hurricanes. You may not reach a conclusion, but that doesn't dismiss the damning evidence.
The Capt and his wife (as well as crew as I remember) said the Bounty had sailed in many hurricanes prior to Sandy. We do not know if this is true. Just because someone says it does not mean it is true.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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The Capt and his wife (as well as crew as I remember) said the Bounty had sailed in many hurricanes prior to Sandy. We do not know if this is true. Just because someone says it does not mean it is true.
Holy smokes, Casey. What would it take to suggest to you that it was true then?
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Holy smokes, Casey. What would it take to suggest to you that it was true then?
My point is they "thought" they sailed into a hurricane. Was the wind sustained at 75 mph when they were "in" these hurricanes. Again it is all conjecture.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by nolatom View Post
Re the "Coast Guard would've drilled holes and sunk us at the dock in Miami" idea, I too place more credence on the first-hand account of Capt Hausman who was the skipper then (and didn't mention such a thing, nor going way short-handed either) than on a shoreside guy in a Taunton Mass news article who wasn't there. Hausman said "the plan" was to head out and go way south, which worked, though it sounded like a close one. If he'd been "forced out there" by Coast Guard meanies at the threat of involuntary scuttling, wouldn't he have mentioned it in an interview whose whole point is what a captain has to take into account in making the difficult "sail or stay" decision?

Re alleged Coast Guard meanness with drill bitts, I too doubt this. A Coast Guard Captain of the Port has much discretion under the law, and could direct a vessel to move, or to improve its moorings, but will I think leave ballasting and tactical decisions to the captain.


Full disclosure once again. I'm retired USCGR.
Certainly doesn't pass the sniff test, for me...

If he claims he was only 50 miles south of the eye of Andrew when it crossed the Florida Straits, that implies he would have departed Miami pretty shortly before the storm's landfall... Conditions in the straits would have already been fairly "impressive" for a day or so before, and I find it very difficult to believe the CG would have endorsed, much less "forced", such a departure so close to Andrew's arrival...

Chances are the BOUNTY would have been lying along the outside wall of the Miamarina at Bayside, that's pretty much the only spot for such dockside attractions of her size in Miami... Pretty certain I've seen her there at one time or another, and she surely would have been destroyed - and likely created heavy damage to those docks - had she remained there during the storm...

Pretty much the only option in port would have been for her to lie somewhere along the cruise ship or container ship terminals on Dodge Island... That's a massive facility, hard to imagine there would not have been space found somewhere for her there... In a storm of Andrew's intensity, she still may well have been heavily damaged or destroyed, but she would have fared a far better chance than had she remained at Bayside...

This story, whatever truth it does contain, smells strongly similar to the tale of FANTOME in Mitch, where the owners of the vessel were exerting some fairly heavy "pressure" on the decisions of the crew, from their own place of safety ashore...

Just my hunch, of course...
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
My point is they "thought" they sailed into a hurricane. Was the wind sustained at 75 mph when they were "in" these hurricanes. Again it is all conjecture.
That's just form over substance. The issue is not one of a specific wind speed, it is of their propensity to push limits that most would never. If they intentionally got close, I don't care what the anemometer said, it was a roll of the dice. The pattern is becoming clearer.
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