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  #1421  
Old 12-17-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
That's just form over substance. The issue is not one of a specific wind speed, it is of their propensity to push limits that most would never. If they intentionally got close, I don't care what the anemometer said, it was a roll of the dice. The pattern is becoming clearer.
I agree that weather they were really in a storm that meets the definition of a hurricane or not does not really matter.

What matters is that they finally found a storm that was more than Bounty could handle.

My point is that this bounty crew and captain say a lot of things to the media (both in print and on video) that may or may not be true. A lot of what we read, see and hear seems to be what the crew and captain "think" happened, not really what happened.
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  #1422  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I guess that you have said what many think but had not the courage to post. Actually I tried to verify if Bountydaughter is really who she claims to be and found out that there is not anyway to do that. Not saying that she is not bounty Captain's daughter (I have no way of knowing that) but the odds seem small to me.

Of course that changes in nothing is right to participate on this discussion, just makes the discussion more awkward.

Regards

Paulo
I'm very confused by the focus on my identity. That you would try to verify my identity I find odd. I have no reason to lie about who I am. Why do you think the odds are small that I am who I say I am? jameswilson, I am really taken aback by your legal comments. I have referred to the captain several times as my stepfather, but yes I have also referred to myself as his daughter. My mother started seeing Robin in 1996 when my daughter was a year old. He has been in my life for 17 years. My daughter refers to him as her grandfather. I really have never heard her say stepgrandfather. he has been in her life her whole life. When you love someone you do not think in terms of legalities. We are not in a court of law and we are not speaking in legal terms. Robin referred to me as his daughter.
I originally posted on this site to comment on the letter by Jan C. Myles because that letter has upset my mother greatly. That was really my only intention, the need to make our feelings known about his hurtful, hateful letter. Since then my mental health, grip on reality and logic have all been questioned. I was asked to reveal if I was actually Robin's stepdaughter and I answered. I have offered my opinion and given information that I have learned over the years about Robin in defense of Robin. Now I am being accused of being a liar and an imposter? What would I have to gain from that?
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  #1423  
Old 12-17-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
I agree that weather they were really in a storm that meets the definition of a hurricane or not does not really matter.

What matters is that they finally found a storm that was more than Bounty could handle.

My point is that this bounty crew and captain say a lot of things to the media (both in print and on video) that may or may not be true. A lot of what we read, see and hear seems to be what the crew and captain "think" happened, not really what happened.
If the Captain said he liked to sail Hurricanes, if the wife says that his husband sailed plenty hurricanes, if the crew says that the Bounty sailed hurricanes to the point of saying that "Bounty loves Hurricanes" it seems to me that the odds are that they had sailed hurricanes previously. That is a lot of people to be all bullshiters.

The Captain's wife was very adamant about that in the interview she gave on a TV program. She said, questioned about this Captain's statement:

Quote:

"Walbridge said "you try and get up as close to the eye of it as you can, and you stay down in the southeast quadrant, and when it stops, you stop. You don't want to get in front of it — you want to stay behind it. But you'll also get a good ride out of a hurricane."

Claudia McCann said Tuesday that during the public television interview her husband was "being a little…cute, I guess."

"But he would like hurricanes because they pushed him, they made him go fast. And he's been in many hurricanes. I mean, I can't even count the number of hurricanes he's been in."


HMS Bounty captain 'wasn't gambling' with lives, wife says - World - CBC News

Probably she is exaggerating but I don't think she is lying so I guess that the Captain and the Bounty had been in some hurricanes before.

Audio | As It Happens with Carol Off and Jeff Douglas | CBC Radio

By the way, I have posted on the interesting sailboat thread some movies about tall ships. On some of them we can see how those boats can be sailed and what sails are used with F10 winds. Of course, even if those boats seem to be the same as Bounty there is a huge difference, a difference of two centuries in boat design.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 12-17-2012 at 10:25 PM.
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  #1424  
Old 12-17-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bountydaughter View Post
I'm very confused by the focus on my identity. That you would try to verify my identity I find odd. I have no reason to lie about who I am. Why do you think the odds are small that I am who I say I am? jameswilson, I am really taken aback by your legal comments. I have referred to the captain several times as my stepfather, but yes I have also referred to myself as his daughter. My mother started seeing Robin in 1996 when my daughter was a year old. He has been in my life for 17 years. My daughter refers to him as her grandfather. I really have never heard her say stepgrandfather. he has been in her life her whole life. When you love someone you do not think in terms of legalities. We are not in a court of law and we are not speaking in legal terms. Robin referred to me as his daughter.
I originally posted on this site to comment on the letter by Jan C. Myles because that letter has upset my mother greatly. That was really my only intention, the need to make our feelings known about his hurtful, hateful letter. Since then my mental health, grip on reality and logic have all been questioned. I was asked to reveal if I was actually Robin's stepdaughter and I answered. I have offered my opinion and given information that I have learned over the years about Robin in defense of Robin. Now I am being accused of being a liar and an imposter? What would I have to gain from that?
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  #1425  
Old 12-17-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bountydaughter View Post
I'm very confused by the focus on my identity. That you would try to verify my identity I find odd. I have no reason to lie about who I am. Why do you think the odds are small that I am who I say I am? jameswilson, I am really taken aback by your legal comments. I have referred to the captain several times as my stepfather, but yes I have also referred to myself as his daughter. My mother started seeing Robin in 1996 when my daughter was a year old. He has been in my life for 17 years. My daughter refers to him as her grandfather. I really have never heard her say stepgrandfather. he has been in her life her whole life. When you love someone you do not think in terms of legalities. We are not in a court of law and we are not speaking in legal terms. Robin referred to me as his daughter.
I originally posted on this site to comment on the letter by Jan C. Myles because that letter has upset my mother greatly. That was really my only intention, the need to make our feelings known about his hurtful, hateful letter. Since then my mental health, grip on reality and logic have all been questioned. I was asked to reveal if I was actually Robin's stepdaughter and I answered. I have offered my opinion and given information that I have learned over the years about Robin in defense of Robin. Now I am being accused of being a liar and an imposter? What would I have to gain from that?
You have to understand that is quite common on forums someone to impersonate another person to make a discussion going sideways. There is even a name for that, we call them Trolls. It seems just odd that the Captain's Daughter come to a sailboat forum discussion over a letter that has not posted here in first place, but on Facebook.

If you are really who you say you are I hope you can forgive and understand the reason for our doubts. Regarding that letter, that was posted in the Facebook and then on Sailnet not on this thread but here:

An Informed Opinion about the Bounty

You can find all the discussion regarding that letter not on this thread but on the one that I posted above.

Your mother and yourself would be glad to know that ( even if most of us don't understand why the captain set sail and setting sail why he did not evade the hurricane or look for shelter on several possible ports) the position regarding that letter was quite unanimous. Almost everybody, including me, felt and said that it was not a way to express an opinion much less from someone that says it was a friend of your father.

I guess that you should read that thread and transmit to your mother that we also feel that it was not right to express an opinion in that fashion.

I hope we have been as polite as you have been on your posts.

Best Regards

Paulo
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  #1426  
Old 12-17-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
...A lot of what we read, see and hear seems to be what the crew and captain "think" happened, not really what happened.
So because the statements of people who were actually there don't agree with the artificial reality that you guys have created (by repeating your speculation so much that you've deluded yourselves into thinking it's "fact"), you have the gall to belittle their statements by claiming that they are not really what happened.

I am disappointed by the classlessness of many of the comments here. You guys have the unique opportunity to ask real questions of someone who has been close to the captain and crew for 17 years, and to actually learn something, and you're blowing it because you are so convinced of the "rightness" of the artificially synthesized "facts" that you've been echoing back and forth to each other for the past 6 weeks.
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  #1427  
Old 12-18-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Your mother and yourself would be glad to know that ( even if most of us don't understand why the captain set sail and setting sail why he did not evade the hurricane or look for shelter on several possible ports) the position regarding that letter was quite unanimous. Almost everybody, including me, felt and said that it was not a way to express an opinion much less from someone that says it was a friend of your father.

I guess that you should read that thread and transmit to your mother that we also feel that it was not right to express an opinion in that fashion.

I hope we have been as polite as you have been on your posts.

Best Regards

Paulo

This is either disingenuous or you have completely changed your mind like Rick ( Takefive) said some people would. You have since the 8th post, posted harshly against the Captain. prejudged him and spoke vehemenly about him personally without cause.

Questioning his decisions is one thing this is another., You have either agreed with or called him a jackass, irresponsible, or an idiot. You posted harsh opinions you found in the proifessional gCaptain site, similar to Jan Miles, and just as harsh time and time again to prove you points. Quite possibly he saw that and thought his would be appropriate here.

You have been far from polite to her father in your posts. having an opinion is one thing...expressing it harshly is another....then stating you were not part of the impolitness.... is even another. You have the right to post whatever you want and have your opinion. Below are exerpts from some of the posts and I only went as far as #555.

You have personally made statements about him like
Quote:
If I was the owner of that boat I would have fired him after this interview.
,
Quote:
No further investigation will ever portray this captain as wise, careful or cautious, given what we already know about his decision-making in the circumstances
,
Quote:
This Captain should have lost its license after having said this barbarity. He can do it alone in his boat and even so he is putting at risk the ones that sooner or later would be trying to save him, but doing this with a crew that has confidence his judgment about their safety, putting all in a "calculated risk"? This guy is irresponsible and that is the last thing a Captain should be
,
Quote:
He was doing precisely what he said he liked to do in the interview regarding hurricanes: Getting a good ride out of them]
In fact he described exactly what he was going to do to his crew before setting sail and that was precisely what he said on the interview regarding chasing hurricanes
,
Quote:
The captain had not some responsibility it has ALL RESPONSABILITY
,
Quote:
I also have said that my opinions in this thread has as base the opinions expressed by those professionals and that's why I extensively quoted them.
.

You have also agreed and signified that you liked the following posts
Quote:
Didn't the idots in charge monitor the weather for the past week? The owners should be billed for the rescue- psoed by Sawwhet..I agree with that. posted by PCP.
,
Quote:
If you have read the posts on the listerv long enough, you will already have realized there is no shortage of fools who take to the sea as an escape. Do not risk your life on someone who does not demonstrate common sense and sound judgment.I am beginning to see a pattern on the listserv. After every major storm, we do a play by play on[B] some jackass who decides to leave port immediately prior to the arrival of the storm. Who is going to be next unfortunate victim?
,
Quote:
There is no rush to judgment. No further investigation will ever portray this captain as wise, careful or cautious, given what we already know about his decision-making in the circumstances. We are not required to search for a superceding cause to exonerate him
,


IMHO I think this thread should be locked now. Going after Bountydaughter was the last straw. Whether she was the daughter of the Captain ( I beleive her) or she was even a new member to SN, calling someone out in public or questioning whether they are a troll should be done privately through the moderators.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SawWhet
Didn't the idots in charge monitor the weather for the past week? The owners should be billed for the rescue.
_

Quote:
I agree with that.

PCP-Post 8
You have stated the Captain was in charge so here you are calling him and idiot




Quote:
If I was the owner of that boat I would have fired him after this interview.
PCP- Post 171
You advocated firing the Captain if you were the owner

Quote:
If you have read the posts on the listerv long enough, you will already have realized there is no shortage of fools who take to the sea as an escape. Do not risk your life on someone who does not demonstrate common sense and sound judgment.

I am beginning to see a pattern on the listserv. After every major storm, we do a play by play on some jackass who decides to leave port immediately prior to the arrival of the storm. Who is going to be next unfortunate victim?

James Wilson29 Post 182 Liked by PCP and Casey199
You approved of this post therefore you agree


Quote:
There is no rush to judgment. No further investigation will ever portray this captain as wise, careful or cautious, given what we already know about his decision-making in the circumstances. We are not required to search for a superceding cause to exonerate him.
James Wilson Post 264 liked PCP
You agreed that you liked this post

Quote:
There is no rush to judgment. No further investigation will ever portray this captain as wise, careful or cautious, given what we already know about his decision-making in the circumstances. We are not required to search for a superceding cause to exonerate him.
PCP- Post 276
[B]I guess this Captain's statement says it all:

Quote:
"we chase hurricanes...You try to get up as close to the eye of it as you can, and you stay down in the southeast quadrant, and when it stops, you stop, you don't want to get in front of it, you want to stay behind it, but you also get a good ride out of a hurricane,"- quoted from a newsclip
This Captain should have lost its license after having said this barbarity. He can do it alone in his boat and even so he is putting at risk the ones that sooner or later would be trying to save him, but doing this with a crew that has confidence his judgment about their safety, putting all in a "calculated risk"? This guy is irresponsible and that is the last thing a Captain should be.PCP- Post 301
You are pretty damning of the captain here


Quote:
He was doing precisely what he said he liked to do in the interview regarding hurricanes: Getting a good ride out of them.

In fact he described exactly what he was going to do to his crew before setting sail and that was precisely what he said on the interview regarding chasing hurricanes
PCP- Post 378

Quote:
The captain had not some responsibility it has ALL RESPONSABILITY.

He was only there because he decided to be there, in a Hurricane leaving a safe port, where a similar tall ship stayed without any problem.

I guess that are you and others like you that keep posting what I consider nonsense regarding his absence of responsibility or possibility of diminished responsibility.
PCP Post 385
Quote:
Obviously the Captain thought that the Bounty, in the present condition, was a ship able to sail in an hurricane and that's why he chose to sail a hurricane. This is confirmed by what was said by the Captain about the ship: "The Bounty has no boundaries".

This is a ridiculous statement as it was ridiculously dangerous to take that ship to an Hurricane.
PCP- Post 395
Quote:
I also have said that my opinions in this thread has as base the opinions expressed by those professionals and that's why I extensively quoted them.
PCP- Post 444
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Last edited by chef2sail; 12-18-2012 at 03:28 AM.
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  #1428  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Chef, you've asked PCP to calm down and now that he has, you're confronting him over it? He isn't going to fully change his position, nor should he have to. I'm going to have to separate you two......
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  #1429  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
IMHO I think this thread should be locked now. Going after Bountydaughter was the last straw. Whether she was the daughter of the Captain ( I beleive her) or she was even a new member to SN, calling someone out in public or questioning whether they are a troll should be done privately through the moderators...
Agree 100%
The only real question -- why the Bounty sailed -- will never have a satisfactory answer. The thread seems to have been reduced to repetition and <i>ad hominem</i> attacks. IMHO it's time to move on.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bountydaughter View Post
......Now I am being accused of being a liar and an imposter? What would I have to gain from that?
I don't recall anyone accusing you of being a liar, but only raising the point that very few of us really know who the posters really are. Some will post their real names and identities, email addresses and facebook links. Others, like me, are more concerned about identity theft, invasion of privacy or simply have a concern that bad guys would know where my boat was and when I must not be aboard. In many people's eyes, using a generic screen name lowers my legitimacy, which I'm fine with.

While there are some that have posted opinions that must be very hard to read, there are many that have been equally stubborn in their support of Bounty's actions. Irrationally dismissing actual testimony from first hand witnesses. Would one of those impersonate his stepdaughter? Maybe.

I'm certainly not going to say you have, nor do I think it matters much one way or the other. I hope you find peace, whoever you may or may not be.
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