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  #1441  
Old 12-18-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Chef, you've asked PCP to calm down and now that he has, you're confronting him over it? He isn't going to fully change his position, nor should he have to. I'm going to have to separate you two......
I don't need to be separated from nobody. I have been polite and I am not acting in any other way then to try to contribute to this thread. I am not trying to intimidate nobody and when I try to refuter an opinion that I do not agree I do so in a civil manner. I have opinions but I do respect other opinions.

Regards

Paulo
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  #1442  
Old 12-18-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

[quote=NCC320;963503]PCP...
Quote:
Thanks for your posts on this topic. Your opinions are just as valid as anyone else's opinion. Your posts have more supporting documentation than most others and show considerable study, which makes them esspecially valuable.
He does post valuable information and most of it has been germaine and posted civilly, I agree. Not all though and when he gets called on it has a very vitriollic reaction to the poster.. Why should he be any different than the way I am treated when I post. When his supporting documentation is another internet blog site, I dont recognize the validity of it, after all as has beenpointed out here anyone can join it and have an opinion...even me who has.

Quote:
Chef....You have posted probably more posts on this topic than anyone else. You seem to get angry when you can't control the outcome of the conversation. When you get angry, you throw out some nasty slights against the persons who post something you don't like.
Not angry...your interpretation of my emotions. Control the outcome of a conversation...thats an oxymoron. I lag behind PCP on number of posts. I have not been the only person to post my opinions contrary to his and clearly others have done it multiple times yet you chose to only zero in one mine. You have that right of course,

Quote:
Remember Mantus anchor posts.....Mantus was essentially accused of unethical behavior by you, but as near as I can tell, when all the rocks hit the ground, they are a pretty straight up group. .
But they were found to be not following the rules by not fully disclosing that one of the posters was an employee of theirs acting like a new member. That was unethical. Because of my and others posts to that nature they were required to fully disclose. That protects all of us.

I dont know them so I dont know if they are a straight up group, I hope so as I have bought from them, but in this instance they clearly has someone come on and extoll the anchor who was a consulting employee of their business. They did immediatelky correct the issue.

BTW I bought one of their anchors
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Last edited by chef2sail; 12-18-2012 at 11:05 AM.
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  #1443  
Old 12-18-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
No, I did not change of opinion regarding the facts.




I never called the Captain jackass or idiot. I don'y use that kind of language and don't insult people. I said that he had taken an idiotic decision. That is not the same as calling him an idiot. Even the brighter among us take from time to time idiotic decisions. You say that I call him Jackass and idiot because I, like other reputable members, have liked the posts where he was qualified as that, and that is just ridiculous. When one likes a post that does not mean that we would use the same language that was used by the poster but that we globally agree with the meaning of the post, not with the exact terms used.

I never used the term Jackass and I have the opinion that has a Professional Captain he was irresponsible not only this time but in all other times that he sailed hurricanes (as it was stated by him, his wife and the crew). Yes I consider irresponsible a Captain that sails a XVIII century designed wooden boat ship to "get a good ride out of a hurricane".


Nobody is going after Bountydaughter and I guess that only you can imagine that.

You have misquoted me again and I hope this time you would apologize. It was not me that had said this:




Regards

Paulo
There is no need for apology here. That is only used in times when you are wrong about something and I have apologized in the past when I was.

The facts I redacted are the facts. They are either posts you posted yourself or posts you said you agred with by pushing the "like button" By pushing that button it says you agree with the poster. So if someone calls the Captain a jackass and you push the like button you agree. You are savy enough to put a statement that you dont agree with utilizing that word if it something you wouldnt do.

We all know how you feel about the Captain and the tone you have used posting about him. We know you dont post anything which would make him look favorable and have reposted quotes from gCaptain which support your claims. When you do that and use it as evidence you cant hide and say oh thats someone elses words. Those are words you are using to support your point.
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  #1444  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
But they were found to be unethical and not following the rules by not fully disclosing that one of the posters was an employee of theirs acting like a new member. BTW I bought one of their anchors
Not really. One of their consultants (as I recall) may have posted once or twice before identifying her association, but at least one of those posts was to a question I had regarding bolts...she answered it directly and it was not necessary to tell of associations. The question was general about bolts, not specific to the brand.

You just can't stand to not win....if the facts or statements are not like you want, you rewrite the statements to say something other than what was said. And if it is going badly for you, you envoke the great number of friends (implying that you are better known and liked than the opposing poster). Next comes that you are good guy. You probably are a good guy with many friends, so that makes it all the more unnecessary to trash other people of their opinions.
And I won't mention "being behind computer screens"....in reality we all are, some with real experience, some who haven't yet attained significant experience, but they all have minds and can form opinions.
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  #1445  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Do not confuse "truth" with "consensus." The latter can emerge from heated speculation and discussion of hypotheticals. The former can only emerge from a formal investigation of the real facts......
This is where we fundamentally disagree, which is fine. Ask any death row prisoner that was later exonerated by DNA evidence if they think the official investigation is always the right answer. You can't ask the one's that were actually killed first. Did you buy the jury verdict in the OJ trial?

I also don't dismiss the official investigation out of hand, but have no expectation that it will be the complete, final and always accurate conclusion. It is our freedom of speech that insures we all hear all sides.
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  #1446  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
...If we want to become Sailing Anarchy and fall into the trap of incivility where evry post starts with the old SNL skit..."Jane you ignorrant sl.t" then IMHO we will lose a lot of posters and people here.....
While this thread has touched many nerves, I don't see anything across SN that remotely resembles SA. Although, that Jane Curtin and Dan Ayckroyd skit is one of my all time favs........ Don't leave out Jane's opening line, "Dan, you pompous a$$"
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  #1447  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NCC320 View Post
Not really. One of their consultants (as I recall) may have posted once or twice before identifying her association, .
Thats like saying. I am a little pregnant I think. You cant be a revisionist here
What caused her to identify herself were someonelses and my posts. The issue got resolved because she was identified and it is resolved so no need to keep beating it up

Arent you doing here what you state that I do or are you going to justify it
Quote:
You just can't stand to not win....if the facts or statements are not like you want, you rewrite the statements to say something other than what was said.
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  #1448  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
This is where we fundamentally disagree, which is fine. Ask any death row prisoner that was later exonerated by DNA evidence if they think the official investigation is always the right answer. You can't ask the one's that were actually killed first. Did you buy the jury verdict in the OJ trial?
Yes. The evidence was tampered with by the police who also lied. The jury found the correct verdict. Not a good analogy

Did I think he killed her yes
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  #1449  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Yes. The evidence was tampered with by the police who also lied. The jury found the correct verdict. Not a good analogy

Did I think he killed her yes
I think it is. What makes you so sure this official investigation won't have tampered evidence? You would have absolutely no knowledge of those misgivings, if people weren't talking about it and debating it.
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  #1450  
Old 12-18-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
So because the statements of people who were actually there don't agree with the artificial reality that you guys have created (by repeating your speculation so much that you've deluded yourselves into thinking it's "fact"), you have the gall to belittle their statements by claiming that they are not really what happened.

I am disappointed by the classlessness of many of the comments here. You guys have the unique opportunity to ask real questions of someone who has been close to the captain and crew for 17 years, and to actually learn something, and you're blowing it because you are so convinced of the "rightness" of the artificially synthesized "facts" that you've been echoing back and forth to each other for the past 6 weeks.
Seems you missed my point. Just because the Capt/crew of Bounty makes a statement does not mean it's true. Take the statements "a ship if safer at sea than in port". That has been proven false.

Imagine if every boat along the east coast had gone to sea prior to hurricane Sandy. How many more boats and people would have been lost?

Eye witnesses are the worst evidence in the court of law.
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