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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Vessels Lost, Missing, or in Danger
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  #151  
Old 11-01-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimjazzdad View Post
I, for one, will wait until the report of the investigation comes out (at least a few months, I am guessing) before speculating on the root causes of this tragedy.
Most of the comments here seem to be about the specific causes of the sinking. The root cause seems pretty apparent - being at sea, in notoriously dangerous waters, with a hurricane bearing down.
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  #152  
Old 11-01-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
May be the survivors is waiting for a movie or book deal.
That's pretty cynical - they are probably still in shock, if not actually hospitalized.
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  #153  
Old 11-01-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingNwing View Post
This is out of context or the article wasn't clear; the quote is from William McRea, who works for the St Augustine Pirate Museum, not the Bounty, and the "our group" he's talking about are the people who play pirates in St Augustine who visited the ship, not who sailed it. Here's a bit more context for the quote:

"McRea said the crew was “a good bunch” who impressed the members of his group with stories of sailing the high seas.

“A lot of the people in our group are just regular guys and gals who like to dress up as pirates, but many of them have never really set foot on the deck of a ship at sea,” he said. “So it was a thrill to hear all the exciting stories offered by the crew members, ..."
You are right. Sorry about that. No intention meant. It seems that the article is a bit confusing and I read it too fast even if in another article it is said that the sailors were paid but not a permanent crew on this boat.

Regards

Paulo
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  #154  
Old 11-01-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
Given that (a) the aerial pic of Bounty half-submerged appears to show at least the main topmast snapped off and (b) the "abandon ship" call apparently happened in the dark.. maybe the topmast went overside and punched a hole in the hull before it could be cut away in time??...

Sheer speculation on my part, but I've read that exactly that scenario caused the loss of many ships during the 18th and 19th centuries. In the wrong place, in the dark and in heavy seas, a hole that large could overwhelm the pumps and kill engine electrics before the crew could do anything about it.


EDIT: They probably hauled the topmasts down before leaving port, so ignore the above.

I think you could be right about the mast breaking. From the pics it looks like the three mast broke as well as the bow sprint. Can imagine what would have done all that damage.

Do the crew going aloft normally wear a harness? From pic looks like some do and some don't.

Also, maybe water came in through the windows on sides and stern of ship. Did they have a method to cover these during rough weather?

The other thing I find interesting, even with the ship totally swamped, she still is floating. For the original square riggers, would they have not been heavily balasted such that if swamped, they would completely sink? Was this ship properly ballasted?

FYI:
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=...7A21&first=192
Attached Thumbnails
HMS Bounty in trouble...-p2.jpg   HMS Bounty in trouble...-bilde.jpg   HMS Bounty in trouble...-p5.jpg   HMS Bounty in trouble...-p6.jpg  

Last edited by casey1999; 11-01-2012 at 03:36 PM.
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  #155  
Old 11-01-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloodhunter View Post
...
The original Bounty had a crew of 44 officers and men this version had 16.
The original Bounty was a Royal Navy ship and as such her officers had started out as midshipmen in their young teens and had sailed these ships in all kinds of conditions and all sorts of weather. The same was true of the petty officers. While the crews usually had at least a leavening of experienced sailors.

The Bounty was not a sailboat, she was a full-rigged sailing ship. She handled in a very different manner from the vessels we sail, especially in extreme conditions. With all due respect to this captain and crew there is no way they could have had the experience necessary to sail the Bounty through Sandy.
I suspect that the plan was to motor until they were past the storm and then motorsail. I have no idea how the Bounty would handle under power especially with no press of canvas to provide some stability.
We don't know why the Bounty started taking on a lot of water.We also don't know whether the rising water drowned the engines and the generator or whether power was lost for some other reason. In either xase the ship was doomed.
So again why was the Bounty out there in the first place.
I guess it is one of the best posts if not the best on this thread.

I think that the lost of this boat and Concordia should raise some questions about the way these ships are administrated, the minimum requirements in what regards the number and qualification of the crews and mandatory regular inspections in what regards the condition of the ships. Very old wooden ships should have very frequent mandatory inspections.

What you say about the crew and the comparison of a high professional and seasoned 44 crew with a skeleton crew of semi-amateur sailors is obvious. It seems that the only true professional on that boat was the Captain.

I don't know if that was relevant for the accident but I know that the conditions that the boat faced would not be fatal for a well manned ship of that type. I don't know if the number and quality of the crew contributed to the accident or if the boat was just not in condition to take that kind of punishment and made too much water.

In any of the cases the Captain should know that his crew was not up to face really bad weather in that ship or that the ship was not in conditions to endure bad weather. In any of the cases it should have stayed in Port.

"But as the search enters its fourth day, persistent questions arise about why the captain put a small, mostly greenhorn crew into the treacherous waters off Cape Hatteras, N.C., within reach of a hurricane"...

In the 18th century, the original Bounty’s full crew would have hoisted smaller storm sails to keep the ship plowing in one direction. But that didn’t happen as things began to go wrong on Sunday, including the reported loss of diesel power.

Powerless, “that ship would have been careening on all three axes and it’s possible that a hole opened up, a plank loosened up, and once she lost power there’s no chance to get storm sails up and manage them with just 16 people on board – remember, the original Bounty had a crew of 100,” says Mr. Mercogliano.



Many questions, few answers about loss of HMS Bounty to hurricane Sandy - CSMonitor.com

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 11-01-2012 at 03:20 PM.
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  #156  
Old 11-01-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Some comments from am amateur freshwater catamaran jockey....
note that at the time of sinking and the previous 12 hours that
the Bounty was approximately due west of the storm eye
and even if there were 18 to 25 foot waves, the wind direction
from the counterclockwise storm should have been blowing directly
from their tail end. Now I know it would be foolish to have
any kinds of canvas up ( I think ? ) or maybe not, if the engine
is lost perhaps a small one up front to maintain direction
and stability.... Could the crew of pretty girls managed to hoist
any canvas in that manner in 45 knot winds is another question.

Someday we will know if they were unlucky and had a mechanical
breakdown or whether the waves coming over the sides
of the ship and down into the bottom drowned the engines.

In that case, the ship simply succumbed to conditions bigger
than it could handle ( and sunk by design ).
I wonder if the ships log for the last 50 years could reveal what
the tallest and roughest seas the ship has ever encounted and handled.
were.

Academically, I would like to know if the ship had sailed due east
out into the Atlantic how far it could have gotton since it would
have been sailing head on into the hurricane head winds because
of the counter clockwise storm. Or maybe when the ship left
port there were no headwinds for a day or two and they
could have made good progress.

I do remember that the ship was capable of 10 knots speed
under power and that is in dead calm seas and winds.

So, assume first two days of no headwinds and the ship could have
been 480 miles ( 48 hrs times 10 knots) due east from dock into the
atlantic and then maybe 75 miles a day for the next 3 days. That would
have put it 700 miles out into the Atlantic after 5 days at sea.

I think that is the decision that should have been made if
we went back in a Time Machine and could tell captain what to
do.

Also, regarding survival suits and swimming in washing machine
seas of 18 to 25 feet. The problem is breathing and fatigue
exhaustion of fighting for clear air to breathe. Do we have any
technology that could help us breathe other than tanks which
would run out of air anyway. I was thinking a mask and snorkel
would be better. Dont the navy swimmers wear mask and snorkel?

Maybe you could float and get a breath when you hit clear air
and then hold your breath and exhale a minute later to get
another breath when you hit clear air once again.

But wow, what if you had to do that for 24 or 36 hours to stay
alive ?

I do have a suggestion, the firemen wear small tanks good for
20 minutes and I think survival suits should have them just to
allow enough air to swim to the life raft etc. It is a shame
the last two to leave the ship could not make it to the
life rafts. What a pretty little girl.. Miss Teen Alaska a few years
back.
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  #157  
Old 11-01-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

[QUOTE=preventec47;941555]

Also, regarding survival suits and swimming in washing machine
seas of 18 to 25 feet. The problem is breathing and fatigue
exhaustion of fighting for clear air to breathe. Do we have any
technology that could help us breathe other than tanks which
would run out of air anyway. I was thinking a mask and snorkel
would be better. Dont the navy swimmers wear mask and snorkel?

Maybe you could float and get a breath when you hit clear air
and then hold your breath and exhale a minute later to get
another breath when you hit clear air once again.

But wow, what if you had to do that for 24 or 36 hours to stay
alive ?

I do have a suggestion, the firemen wear small tanks good for
20 minutes and I think survival suits should have them just to
allow enough air to swim to the life raft etc. QUOTE]




Some survival suits have a piece of clear plastic to cover your face to allow you to breathe air and not water/sea foam. But your are right, after many hours one would be exhausted I would think.

Some cat sailors apparently carry a small scuba tank good for 20 minutes.
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  #158  
Old 11-01-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

This from Sailing Anarchy front page, earlier interview with the capt. Look at 10:47 for what he thinks about hurricanes.

If this is not a doctored interview, then I just can't believe what I'm hearing:

Sailing Anarchy Home Page
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  #159  
Old 11-01-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

<iframe width="890" height="668" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/BNDneMuO7-U?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

There are no bad seas, only different seas? From an Hurricane we want a god ride? Jesus

Look after min 10.40.
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  #160  
Old 11-01-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

this guy seemed to have had a strong death wish
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