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  #1601  
Old 02-13-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Also:

They (crews) also painted over rotted frame before installing the planking, while he (I need to find his name) of Boothbay Shipyard was out for 2 days.

He concerned about the safety of Bounty when the boat left Boothbay. He told Captain to pick and choose the weather.
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Last edited by rockDAWG; 02-13-2013 at 04:21 PM.
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  #1602  
Old 02-13-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
Also:

They (crews) also painted over rotted frame before installing the planking, while he (I need to find his name) of Boothbay Shipyard was out for 2 days.
The shipwright is saying he told Waldbridge of his concernes and said Walbridge was terrified about what he found also. The shipwright said he felt concerned for the safety of the vessel. he says he told Walbridge but not the CG. he told his boss, and he basically said his boss pushed the question away down the road to the next inspction.

Shipwright says he had converstaion with Walbridge that he had to pick and chose his weather.
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  #1603  
Old 02-13-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

His tesimony may be quite damning, but must be taken with a grain of salt, he is basically claiming he told the captain the vessel was unseaworthy and felt that was the end of his responsibility. I dont know that I beleive him. Hopefully there were others present when he did to corroborate his testimomny. I am suprise that walberg is the only one he is telling this to.

The only caveat is that is would be in his and his bosses best interest to cover their asses and throw the blame on Walberg so that no one says what the repair was wasnt adequate and thats why the ship took on water.

It is easy to jump at each piece as it occurs in real time. Prudence says let it all unfold first, although this is damning.
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  #1604  
Old 02-13-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

This is expected that he will speak for the best interest of the shipyard. But I hope he would not lied under oath. His testimony is still very valuable and the condition of the boat was bad shape when she leave the Boothbay shipyard.

He answered the question if the crews used DAP as chaulking below water line. And the shipyard does not use DAP for seams.

Edited:
Captain told the owner to get rid of the boat asap, Captain fears of lawsuit.
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Old 02-13-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Keep an eye peeled at the 6-month anniversary or a few days before, for the possibility (likelihood?) that Bounty's owner will file a Petition for Limitation of Liability in federal court somewhere.

If so it would be tactically advantageous for owners and underwriters to keep all fault "on board" and none on shore, because any of the latter can create "privity" by owners to the faults or unseaworthiness of the vessel or crew--and destroy their chances to limit their liability to the value of Bounty post-sinking, that is, zero.

Doubtful that none of the fault, at least in the condition of the ship, generators, pumps, etc wasn't known or caused by owners/managers, but to keep that chance of limitation alive, they would tend tactically to push all fault onto the errors of an otherwise trained, experienced, and qualified captain and crew, on a properly-maintained and seaworthy ship, and not known by or created by managers on shore.

Along with the limitation action will probably come a plea for "exoneration" from fault based on Act of God. So, no fault, or if there was fault, it was not fault of the shore people.

I am not giving a legal opinion on this case here, just advising what the law is and how it might be used, and how it might affect the motives of the parties in interest and witnesses in the hearing.
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Old 02-13-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
This is expected that he will speak for the best interest of the shipyard. But I hope he would not lied under oath. His testimony is still very valuable and the condition of the boat was bad shape when she leave the Boothbay shipyard.

He answered the question if the crews used DAP as chaulking below water line. And the shipyard does not use DAP for seams.

Edited:
Captain told the owner to get rid of the boat asap, Captain fears of lawsuit.
Yes he saw the Bounty crew used DAP and approved it though. Yeah but he said he talked to the Captain 30 times about it. First hes said no one was there...hard to beleive. When pressed he said a couple of times 5 people were present. Never did a post work walk though other than to look for leftbehind equipment and see if there were leaks. He never documented anything....but mysteriously he had 30 pictures. he said he never even showed them to his boss. If he was so worried about the condition he showed amazing restraint in telling anyone till after she sank.
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  #1607  
Old 02-13-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Yes, I heard that too. I am sure he will be cross examined when the lawyers have a chance to review all the testimony.

Regarding the pictures, He used an iPhone to take those picture, it should have a date and GPS coordinates stamped on the file. I was surprised the lawyer who asked the question did not know it.
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  #1608  
Old 02-14-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

These certainly muddy the waters although I'm not sure how relevant they might be to the question of taking an old ship out with that weather forecast. If she had been a brand new steel sailing vessel, I would feel almost exactly the same way about the decision to sail.


Schooner High and Dry for Repairs

HMS BOUNTY: How Sound Was She?

You should also read this from someone I know personally and consider one of the most knowledgeable people about boat systems I have ever met.

http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com...49&#post999880

Last edited by Roger Long; 02-14-2013 at 08:22 AM.
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  #1609  
Old 02-14-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Ah Ha!!!!!!!!!! Tonnage certificates did have something weird going on!!!!!!!!!

Quote:
In July of 2011, at the urging of USCG Activities Europe and MCA, Simonin walked through a new Tonnage Certificate issued by ABS that set Bounty’s gross tonnage at 409. During a visit, MCA inspectors noticed a change to the ship’s construction – specifically the removal of a tonnage opening – that was not reported to ABS. The new assessment made the Bounty subject to SOLAS, and the HMS Bounty Organization appealed. A year later they changed the vessel back to its previous configuration and received a new tonnage certificate that brought them back down to 266 regulatory tons, but it would seem that for a year Bounty operated in violation of IMO regulations.
Rotted Frames on Bounty | gCaptain - Maritime & Offshore News

This GCaptain reporter is excellent! Really doning well.
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Old 02-14-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Rotted Frames on Bounty | gCaptain - Maritime & Offshore News


Rotted Frames on Bounty
BY MARIO VITTONE ON FEBRUARY 13, 2013


The witness, Todd Kosakowski, looked at Coast Guard’s evidence # CG-41: a series of 29 photographs he had taken of Bounty during its most recent yard period. Mr. Kosakowski – the lead shipwright and project manager for Boothbay Harbor Shipyards - was in charge of the last maintenance project ever to be done on Bounty.

The pictures were of rotted frames and fasteners (trunnels) he found under the planking during repairs. Kosakowski told NTSB investigator Captain Rob Jones that he believes 75% of the framing above the waterline on Bounty may have been rotten, but that the ship’s representative in the yard, Captain Robin Walbridge, declined any further search for rotted wood. He convinced Kosakowski that they would make the repairs before their next Coast Guard hull inspection. The final witness of the day and the discussions of the evidence was stunning to those of us in the crowd.

He had given the photos to the USCG Investigator back in December. That same Coast Guard investigator – Commander Kevin Carroll – was on the other side of the table today, asking questions.

Carroll: “And you had a conversation…did you tell Captain Walbridge?”

Kosakowski: ”Yes.”

Carrol: ”What did he say?”

Kosakowski: “He was also concerned. I told him I thought that he had to pick and choose his weather… he said that he was terrified of what we had found.”

Kosakowski said that he didn’t voice his concerns to anyone other than Captain Walbridge of Bounty and his own boss, Eric Graves, telling Carroll, “I believe that the owner’s rep is the extent of my debt to notify.”

Looking around to see if anyone else looked as dismayed as I felt, I didn’t have to look hard. What we were hearing from Kosakowski came at the end of a long day of testimony that painted a picture of maintenance and management of Bounty that was suspect at best.


Todd Kosakowski with Chief Mate John Svendsen after the second day of testimony into the sinking of Bounty. (Photo M. Vittone)

Morning testimony by Miss Tracey Simonin – the HMS Bounty Organization’s “Director of Shoreside Operations” revealed confusion about the ship’s status as it related to tonnage certificates and maintenance management, ABS and USCG notification of repairs, and who may or may not be in charge of repair work aboard Bounty.

In July of 2011, at the urging of USCG Activities Europe and MCA, Simonin walked through a new Tonnage Certificate issued by ABS that set Bounty’s gross tonnage at 409. During a visit, MCA inspectors noticed a change to the ship’s construction – specifically the removal of a tonnage opening – that was not reported to ABS. The new assessment made the Bounty subject to SOLAS, and the HMS Bounty Organization appealed. A year later they changed the vessel back to its previous configuration and received a new tonnage certificate that brought them back down to 266 regulatory tons, but it would seem that for a year Bounty operated in violation of IMO regulations. Like so much of what I’ve seen so far in these hearings, there are more questions than answers; Simonin answered “I don’t know,” and “I don’t remember,” frequently.

In Simonin’s defense, there was someone in the room better suited to answer the Commander’s questions today, but Mr. Robert Hansen (seated in the front row) is asserting his fifth amendment rights and will not be testifying. Simonin did clear up a couple of things. We learned that the person who posted on Bounty’s Facebook page was Jim Salapatek. He – not the captain – was the one who posted that the voyage into the hurricane was a safe decision, that the Coast Guard had issued a UMIB (Urgent Marine Information Broadcast) for Bounty on October 28th but had rescinded it (they hadn’t), and he did all of that from his home in Illinois. His connection to Bounty? His son, Drew (29) was crew aboard Bounty. How did he get his information? “I don’t know,” said Simonin.

There was a break from strained testimony and nervous answers when Mr. Bert Rogers, the executive director of Tall Ships America, was called as a witness. “Bounty was the star of the show at our events because of her star appeal and we featured her as a headliner vessel at our events,” Rogers said. When asked about Walbridge’s competence, Rogers spoke well of the captain and his efforts over the past 17 years to “turn Bounty around.” He said complimentary things about Bounty’s crew and the ship’s relationship and value to his organization.

It was 20 minutes of good news about the ship and her performance from a respected and experienced leader in the tall ship community. And then Rogers – the first experienced tall-ship captain to take the stand – was asked by Carroll, “Would you have taken her out into that storm?” ”No, I would have sought safer harbor upriver.” No one was surprised.

Carroll: “Do you think the ship was safer at sea?”

Rogers: “I don’t believe that a ship is safer at sea. It is circumstantial. There are cases where that is the example and cases where it is not.”

Carroll: “Is the crew safer at sea?”

Rogers: “That is absurd; they are of course safer in bed than at sea. But if you have to decide between crew safety and ship safety you would have to go to the crew.”

Rogers left before he could hear Kosakowski recount the condition of Bounty and the rotted frames. He didn’t hear about the Walbridge’s decision to wait until the next yard period to get into extensive repairs. He didn’t hear about the shipwright’s warning to keep the boat out of heavy weather. If he had, I wonder what he would have thought about those “circumstances?”

The last to question Rogers was the attorney for the Christian family, Mr. Jacob Shisha. The body of the Christian’s daughter, Claudine (42), was recovered by the Coast Guard on October 29th.

Shisha: “In late October – how many member vessels did you have on the Atlantic Coast?”

Rogers: “About fifty.”

Shisha: “How many made a decision to leave port in anticipation of Hurricane Sandy?”

Rogers: “None that I know of…besides Bounty.”
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