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  #1621  
Old 02-14-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

This is unrelated to the hearing. But I wonder if anyone noticed that.

All survivors wore the Gumby dry suit when the CG picked them up. The suits are not cheap, and considered the financial problem that Bounty organization has. I wonder when those suits were purchased.

If those suit were purchased just before Sandy, I would be worried.
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  #1622  
Old 02-14-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
He said to his boss about the condition of the boat and probably show him what is in the pictures (on the boat). Probably his boss dismissed is concerns as excessive and he just for precaution took the pictures, just in case....

That's what I would have done. If he insisted with the boss probably he would lose his job.

Regards

Paulo
When asked he said he didnt even show his boss the pictures and the boss never saw the pictures he took. This from the same man who testified he made and had no notes.

Paulo...click on the link and watch some of it if you can...its fascinating.
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  #1623  
Old 02-14-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
This is unrelated to the hearing. But I wonder if anyone noticed that.

All survivors wore the Gumby dry suit when the CG picked them up. The suits are not cheap, and considered the financial problem that Bounty organization has. I wonder when those suits were purchased.

If those suit were purchased just before Sandy, I would be worried.
Yes They also had regular drills too., If you read the reporters writing they got thrown off the boat when the ship rolled and they were shocked, yet all of them already had on survival suits.

I think when the crew memebers testify about the days events there will come a clearer picture of the last moments as some of them have already reported they were trained in surviva or abandoning the ship
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  #1624  
Old 02-14-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
I overheard that during the Todd Kosakowski testimony. I am not sure if others like Dave heard that too. ?

During the last haul out, captain and the owner knew that they could not have fix all the rots. And both were surprised by the extents of rotted structure. They deferred the fixes until the next haul out. I am not surprised that lawsuit was in their mind if anything happens to Bounty.
Yes.. you are right and i did hear that.

His testimony was that he fixed what they let him. he ASSUMED since what he found in that area was the same throughout. That assumption was challanged by the Bounty attorney and the CG Commander who asked did he see it or just assume it. He said he took mositure readings, but they didnt show there was moisture, but the only way to know was to unpeal the planking itself. This is what they then agreed to do when the ship got hauled again this year and that she would be ok till then. He never proved it was rotten, but is assuming it was. The only way to tell was to pull the planks. Interestingly the man today testified they could have take wood core samples to find out also.

The man today was in charge of the project and noted that the entire hull under the waterline was redone with oak ( the best) in 2006, and that the rest was being done with fir, It seemes incredulous to think it rotted in 6 years. I also learned about the keel hump (hog) today vs center of gravity and how they removed the hog ( sandboxes) to add the lead ballast ( 20,000) as the keel had to be straingt in 2006. When they pulled it the hump was back, but the lead had softly formed around it.
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Last edited by chef2sail; 02-14-2013 at 02:13 PM.
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  #1625  
Old 02-14-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
The man today was in charge of the project and noted that the entire hull under the waterline was redone with oak ( the best) in 2006, and that the rest was being done with fir, It seemes incredulous to think it rotted in 6 years. I also learned about the keel hump (hog) today vs center of gravity and how they removed the hog ( sandboxes) to add the lead ballast ( 20,000) as the keel had to be straingt in 2006. When they pulled it the hump was back, but the lead had softly formed around it.
I am curious as to where shipyards get their wood used for repair and ship building. Most of the wood available now is second growth (not the old growth that would have been used for ships built 100 or more years ago). With this second growth wood, I could see it not lasting more than 6 years. I had some old birch plywood (not marine grade) that I was going to throw away (full of dry wood termites), had it sitting in the yard exposed to rain and sun on daily basis. After a week it had delaminated and was covered in black mold.

The old growth wood had very tight grain structure, as the trees grew very slowly in the well shaded dense forest. Todays lumber trees are farmed to grow very rapidly and have large grain that soaks up water like a sponge.

Chef, sorry if I missed it but why was the ballast of Bounty changed to lead?

Regards

Last edited by casey1999; 02-14-2013 at 02:41 PM.
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  #1626  
Old 02-14-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
I am curious as to where shipyards get their wood used for repair and ship building. Most of the wood available now is second growth (not the old growth that would have been used for ships built 100 or more years ago). With this second growth wood, I could see it not lasting more than 6 years. I had some old birch plywood (not marine grade) that I was going to throw away (full of dry wood termites), had it sitting in the yard exposed to rain and sun on daily basis. After a week it had delaminated and was covered in black mold.

The old growth wood had very tight grain structure, as the trees grew very slowly in the well shaded dense forest. Todays lumber trees are farmed to grow very rapidly and have large grain that soaks up water like a sponge.

Chef, sorry if I missed it but why was the ballast of Bounty changed to lead?

Regards
The wood used was second cut wood only for the stuff above the water line. The oak used for the below water line came from Tennessee and they went down to supervise it being cut to insure the lengths were as long as possible so there would be less butts to caulk.

The fir was also top grade. From the PCNW. He bought them as timbers and then had them cut. He picked them out personally. He went into detail about the knotting and such. He said it was second growth, but he looked for tighter grain. The fir was used for the deck as well as the planks above the waterline. He picked out the woods himself making sure he wasnt using sap wood vs center wood. he talked about the glucose levels. The expectation was that these timbers would would last way more than 6 years. However he thought the ventilation and the fact the Bounty was kept in the south took away from it lifespan as ity was a perfect laboratory for growth. Thats why he pushed for ventilation

The lead was added in 2006/7 to try and increase the stability of the vessel. It already had some lead in the keel. He also mentioned that the fir was 15 lbs lighter per 12 board ft and saved about 5000 lbs when put in.

He was complimentry about the build quality of the boat built in Ludenberg originally and that when he got it first to refit in 2001 he was totallly suprised at the techniques and complicated build. when asked if it was a prop, he laughed and said no, the techniques were used as the old traditional ships were. He never looked at it as a movie prop nor did he feel the build quality was shortcutted as in a movie prop. In fact he went into detail how string the builkd had to be for the extra fuel tanks needed for the filmeing in the remote south pacific far away from supplies..

He said the owner as well as Walbridge wanted the CG to inspect and to make things as safe as possible as they were going to eventually have it inspected for passengers. He said the owners asked the CG at various time to look at stuff and they did it completely voluntarily.

He was suprised that the vesesel was still intact in the pictures when they left it. Not a picture of a poorly constructed vessel which had failed due to it coming apart. he said deck, chainplates and all structures appeared to be intact that the ship hadnt broken up even a day later was still partially afloat.
He said when he saw the Bounty had left the dock at New London he said OH My God. He had a relationship with Walbridge and was suprised he left
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Last edited by chef2sail; 02-14-2013 at 03:21 PM.
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  #1627  
Old 02-14-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
I am curious as to where shipyards get their wood used for repair and ship building. Most of the wood available now is second growth (not the old growth that would have been used for ships built 100 or more years ago). With this second growth wood, I could see it not lasting more than 6 years. I had some old birch plywood (not marine grade) that I was going to throw away (full of dry wood termites), had it sitting in the yard exposed to rain and sun on daily basis. After a week it had delaminated and was covered in black mold.

The old growth wood had very tight grain structure, as the trees grew very slowly in the well shaded dense forest. Todays lumber trees are farmed to grow very rapidly and have large grain that soaks up water like a sponge.

Chef, sorry if I missed it but why was the ballast of Bounty changed to lead?

Regards
That is true. Do you know that old wood for boat building was subjected to a special preparation? I can only talk about the local tradition but Portugal had a long tradition building wooden ships: The wood was for years in swamps before being sun dried. The objective was the mineralization of the wood cells a way to prevent rooting.

Regards

Paulo
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  #1628  
Old 02-14-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
That is true. Do you know that old wood for boat building was subjected to a special preparation? I can only talk about the local tradition but Portugal had a long tradition building wooden ships: The wood was for years in swamps before being sun dried. The objective was the mineralization of the wood cells a way to prevent rooting.

Regards

Paulo
Yes he even said that it takes 3 years to completely dry out wood and that old shipyards had it that way, but since no one builds wooden ships anymore no one has this wood laying aorund drying out.
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  #1629  
Old 02-14-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
That is true. Do you know that old wood for boat building was subjected to a special preparation? I can only talk about the local tradition but Portugal had a long tradition building wooden ships: The wood was for years in swamps before being sun dried. The objective was the mineralization of the wood cells a way to prevent rooting.

Regards

Paulo
Paulo,
Here in US there are companies that recover "lost" timber. It is in the rivers. Here is one:
Cape Fear Riverwood » History
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  #1630  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
Paulo,
Here in US there are companies that recover "lost" timber. It is in the rivers. Here is one:
Cape Fear Riverwood » History
Testimony was that the Douglas Fir came from thr Pacific NW and that the Oak came from Tennesse. Because of the length of the planks they are not normal wood and they are bought as "strips" and then after they identify which strips ( which are large pieces of woods), they wish to purchase they are then milled into planks 24 ft long or longer of possible. They can get 15-20 planks out of a strip.

The Bounty naval archetectic from ( 2001-2013) is now on stand/ He also was the maine surveyor for the owner of the Bounty at that time.
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