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  #1631  
Old 02-14-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Chef,
Thanks for providing the updates and facts.
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  #1632  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
This is unrelated to the hearing. But I wonder if anyone noticed that.

All survivors wore the Gumby dry suit when the CG picked them up. The suits are not cheap, and considered the financial problem that Bounty organization has. I wonder when those suits were purchased.

If those suit were purchased just before Sandy, I would be worried.
I've been watching the hearings all day and read some transcripts for last two days. I'm getting very nervous for the fate of wooden ships and shipyards that work on them, and it makes my heart heavy because I know Bounty was an exception to the rule.

To answer your questions, when I last spent a major amount of time with Bounty in 2008, she had Gumby suits for the crew. I was actually surprised that she did, as many Tall Ships (likely because they sail in smaller areas, in bays, or very near the coast, and cannot afford the cost) do not carry survival/immersion suits.

I asked a former crewmember this morning the description of the MOB bucket that John Svendsen said saved his life (on the GMA interview) and she said it was a big white rubbermaid bucket that sat between the lifeboats at the stern, and there was a bunch of survival items inside tied together with rope- a gumby suit, flares, food and water rations, flashlight. The idea was if someone fell overboard, the bucket would be emptied over in the hopes that the MOB could swim to the items in the meantime.
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  #1633  
Old 02-14-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
The Bounty naval archetectic from ( 2001-2013) is now on stand/ He also was the maine surveyor for the owner of the Bounty at that time.
Yes, David Wyman is on the stand now starting at 2:35 pm. He was the surveyor and as well as design engineering for hydralic pump and rudder. CG asked if it was a conflict interest or common practices.

CG raised the questions a number times if he indeed completed the survey. He finally admitted that the survey was not completed and he did not inform the owner that the survey is not complete.

It is a kind strange. It appears there are a buddy-buddy relationship there. Of course it is my opinion.

Added:

1. He looked at the 24 pictures that provided by Shipwright, he claimed the rot was not bad.

2. He admitted that he had a numerous conference calls with the Bounty lawyers prior to the hearing. That is a dumb move for Bounty's lawyers. Now he is subjected to tell all the discussion to the CG.
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Last edited by rockDAWG; 02-14-2013 at 05:16 PM.
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  #1634  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

If your good friend is the captain of a ship that you have been paid to do design work on, and the boat needs to get underway asap for a chance to get more funding that will enable your good friend the captain to keep his job - how on God's green Earth, are you not in a conflict of interests Mr. Wyman?
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  #1635  
Old 02-14-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
Yes, David Wyman is on the stand now starting at 2:35 pm. He was the surveyor and as well as design engineering for hydralic pump and rudder. CG asked if it was a conflict interest or common practices.

CG raised the questions a number times if he indeed completed the survey. He finally admitted that the survey was not completed and he did not inform the owner that the survey is not complete.

It is a kind strange. It appears there are a buddy-buddy relationship there. Of course it is my opinion.

Added:

1. He looked at the 24 pictures that provided by Shipwright, he claimed the rot was not bad.

2. He admitted that he had a numerous conference calls with the Bounty lawyers prior to the hearing. That is a dumb move for Bounty's lawyers. Now he is subjected to tell all the discussion to the CG.
I agree

He came across underprepared to answer questions and like a boob. I think the relationship to question here is not his with Waklbridge, but the one with the owner
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  #1636  
Old 02-15-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

First I have now heard about the filters. 2microns way too small


Sunk: The Incredible Truth About the 'Bounty,' a Ship That Never Should Have Sailed | Outdoor Adventure | OutsideOnline.com
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  #1637  
Old 02-15-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
That was posted before, I think in another thread about the Bounty. Also it is the first time that someone talks about a plausible reason fore the owner and the captain to risk that passage other than by that odd reason about a ship being more safe facing an Hurricane at sea. Speculation for the moment but at least an informed one:

"But the full answer to why the Bounty sank was much more complex than a captain’s rash decision. It was a story decades in the making, a veritable opera of near misses and fantastic schemes involving a dogged captain, a fiercely loyal crew, and an owner who was looking to sell. And in the ship’s last act, an unlikely new character had emerged: a young woman with Down syndrome who, perhaps inconceivably, held the key to the Bounty’s future...

..., Walbridge and his crew made do with what little income the ship fetched through $10-a-head tours,... Sometimes, one of the crew told me, they had to use cash from the day’s till to buy groceries. Another crew member, Doug Faunt, said that it was not uncommon for the Bounty to have to wait to dock until more money had been freed up on the ship’s credit card....

but as the 2012 tour season wrapped up, Walbridge believed he had secured a fresh infusion of cash and purpose for the Bounty. Both, he believed, could come from the Ashley DeRamus Foundation, a private organization dedicated to raising awareness about Down syndrome. Walbridge looked forward to using the Bounty as an educational platform for people with special needs, and it may have been that new mission, in part, that led him into the storm...."


But he fails to explain why it was so urgent to get the boat to the next port and what was the relation with that new possible Bounty contributor.

Regarding the fuel filters, the mechanic and surely the captain new from the start that they had the wrong pieces and even so choose to set sail.

"Barksdale was responsible for maintaining the Bounty’s engine room, two diesel engines on either side of the hull topped by complementary generators that spun electrical power for the vessel. A large fuel bay supplied each. Walbridge had just rebuilt the starboard generator, and he told Barksdale to use the port one as much as possible—so they’d have a fresh generator if anything went wrong. Meanwhile, a supplier’s snafu meant that Barksdale had the wrong fuel filters for the generators—two-micron instead of 20-micron ones, which captured more sediment. But he wasn’t too concerned. “We just decided to be really vigilant, since we knew they’d clog up a whole lot faster,” Barksdale told me. “Everything was running smoothly. It seemed like it was going to be fine."

Sunk: The Incredible Truth About the 'Bounty,' a Ship That Never Should Have Sailed | Outdoor Adventure | OutsideOnline.com

Cheers

Paulo
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  #1638  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post

Regarding the fuel filters, the mechanic and surely the captain new from the start that they had the wrong pieces and even so choose to set sail.

"Barksdale was responsible for maintaining the Bounty’s engine room, two diesel engines on either side of the hull topped by complementary generators that spun electrical power for the vessel. A large fuel bay supplied each. Walbridge had just rebuilt the starboard generator, and he told Barksdale to use the port one as much as possible—so they’d have a fresh generator if anything went wrong. Meanwhile, a supplier’s snafu meant that Barksdale had the wrong fuel filters for the generators—two-micron instead of 20-micron ones, which captured more sediment. But he wasn’t too concerned. “We just decided to be really vigilant, since we knew they’d clog up a whole lot faster,” Barksdale told me. “Everything was running smoothly. It seemed like it was going to be fine."

Sunk: The Incredible Truth About the 'Bounty,' a Ship That Never Should Have Sailed | Outdoor Adventure | OutsideOnline.com

Cheers

Paulo
And yet, according to the article, the finer filters proved not to be the problem that resulted in the loss of power...

Quote:
The engine room was forgotten. But though the generators’ two-micron filters hadn’t been a problem, another one had emerged: In the chaos, no one had noticed that the sight tube—a narrow piece of glass at the base of the port fuel bay—had broken. By the time the crew realized what had happened, all the fuel had drained from the port tank, shutting off the port engine and generator.

Restarting a diesel engine once it has run out of fuel is a major job. While Faunt and Barksdale got the starboard set running, Sanders struggled to bleed the port system. Eventually, he was able to restart the generator, but the engine remained dead.
Fuel tank sight gauges without shutoff valves are a MAJOR no-no, one would think a CG inspection might have noticed if they were absent from the system... Otherwise, they should only be opened when checking the tank's fuel level, then closed again... So, either a poor installation, or poor practice by the engineer - should be interesting to see what the testimony on this one turns out to be...

One can only imagine how much water was sloshing around in the BOUNTY's bilge, for the emptying of such a large amount of diesel into it to have gone unnoticed, until after the engine and generator had run out of fuel... Although, it does appear that Barksdale happened not to be in the engine room for an extended period during that occurrence...

Last edited by JonEisberg; 02-15-2013 at 09:07 AM.
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  #1639  
Old 02-15-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Quote:
The engine room was forgotten. But though the generators’ two-micron filters hadn’t been a problem, another one had emerged: In the chaos, no one had noticed that the sight tube—a narrow piece of glass at the base of the port fuel bay—had broken. By the time the crew realized what had happened, all the fuel had drained from the port tank, shutting off the port engine and generator.

Restarting a diesel engine once it has run out of fuel is a major job. While Faunt and Barksdale got the starboard set running, Sanders struggled to bleed the port system. Eventually, he was able to restart the generator, but the engine remained dead.


One can only imagine how much water was sloshing around in the BOUNTY's bilge, for the emptying of such a large amount of diesel into it to have gone unnoticed, until after the engine and generator had run out of fuel... Although, it does appear that Barksdale happened not to be in the engine room for an extended period during that occurrence...
It seems that that leads not only to one generator stooping but much worse to one of the boat engines to stop too. And that was far worse because there was an hydraulic pump connected to it (that stopped too) and because contrary to the generator they did not succeed in putting it running again. I wonder if the other boat engine was still running and what lead to bringing it out of service.

Yes, firstly I thought that the diesel tank they were talking about that spilled by that broken glass was just an auxiliary diesel tank for the generator. It seems now that it was one of the two main diesel tanks, one that feed an generator and one of the boat engines.

How many litters are we talking about? Many hundreds possibly thousands of liters? The smell should be incredible and the place should have become as slippery as ice. No wonder the "engineer" had become hurt by many falls.

Regards

Paulo
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  #1640  
Old 02-15-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
When discussing the hogging in Bounty’s keel (the droop for and aft after years in the water), Jakomovicz said, “The key thing here is that it’s a 50 year old boat. You have to realize that that’s tired.”

Carroll: “Tired?”

Jakomovicz: “When you have a hog in the keel, that boat’s tired. When the backbone is tired and you take that boat in the seaway, that boat’s gonna work, and when it works, it’s gonna leak.” (“Work” refers to the movement of the timbers under strain.)

Carrol: “And you felt comfortable that Bounty was going to make the trip?”

Jakomovicz: “Oh, I had no idea it was going to go into a hurricane!”
The whole thing goes frm bad to worse!
Day Three Testimony Highlights Complexity in Bounty Case | gCaptain - Maritime & Offshore News

We were much closer to the truth in our thread than some thought!
See the next days stuff on tonnage etc.
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