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  #1641  
Old 02-15-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

No live streamed video since the lunch break at noon. Now is 2:24 pm, is me or affect others too??
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  #1642  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
The whole thing goes frm bad to worse!
Day Three Testimony Highlights Complexity in Bounty Case | gCaptain - Maritime & Offshore News

We were much closer to the truth in our thread than some thought!
See the next days stuff on tonnage etc.
I'm pretty stunned from everything said yesterday. Well, not stunned that there was damage, but the extent.. even more than I knew of as a sailor but one that hadn't crewed with Bounty. What did make me think.. the USS Constellation in Baltimore was condemned in the 90s due to a 36 inch hog (she is a much larger ship than Bounty as well, and built in 1851), and when it was decided she would be restored, there were cables from one end of the ship to the other literally holding her together.
Of course, she hadn't actively been sailing in a century, and hadn't been in open waters in 50 or so years, either..

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Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
No live streamed video since the lunch break at noon. Now is 2:24 pm, is me or affect others too??
Nope, friends already contacted WAVY and they're working on it. I am following the Twitter pages of two reporters there than seem to be only adding a little sensationalism, but helps to keep up with the proceedings.

https://twitter.com/Kathryn_Miles (author of the Outside Mag article)

https://twitter.com/mikemather
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  #1643  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

They're back online.
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  #1644  
Old 02-15-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

"Third Mate on sailing in two hurricanes before Sandy: The main difference is that, in those storms, our bilge pumps kept up.

Crew couldn't get the emergency pump to work. That's the pump no one had been trained to operate...."



https://twitter.com/mikemather


After all it seems that the ship had sailed previously in Hurricanes. Does anybody find normal that with today's way of predicting weather a wooden XVIII century designed ship, mostly of the time in bad sailing condition, had sailed in 3 hurricanes?

It seems he thinks normal that a ship could be maintained afloat because pumps are getting out more water than the one that is coming in. It seems pumps were not used in emergencies but as a normally used component on sailing that ship.

I heard old stories about wooden ships that had to be continually pumped...they were ships in bad shape trying to make their last voyage home...and not always succeeding.
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  #1645  
Old 02-15-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Very emotional telling by Laura Groves - Boatswain of Bounty, now is being shown in the video. (5:41 pm)
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  #1646  
Old 02-15-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

I saw her on the rails at Boothbay Harbor Shipyard no less that three times. The most extensive re-fit I saw was the below waterline re-planking back in the early 2000's. Problem was there was nothing much to fasten the planks to....

One would have to ask, if she was completely re-planked in the early 2000's what structural issues could POSSIBLY cause her to need to be re-planked, even if just partially, again only a few years later.....????? The rot was so extensive back than I was shocked to see them slapping on new planks over the sad structure. A real "lipstick on a pig" event. The later re-planking also replaced SOME ribs but only the worst of the worst... The stem was cut out in one of the re-fits but I can't recall which one..

When we anchor in Boothbay I would land and walk the dogs at BHS. I liked to walk around the ship as I always love to watch wooden boat construction, having grown up with them..

In October & November I posted/hot linked to NUMEROUS photos from her re-fits at Boothbay. EVERY SINGLE PHOTO/EVIDENCE HAS BEEN WIPED CLEAN FROM THE NET INCLUDING INTERNET ARCHIVE SEARCHES???

Why? Where did they go? How do you wipe "internet archives"... That costs some $$$$$$ one would assume..... ?

What are they trying to hide? I said it back in October and I will say it again IMHO this vessel was not fit for open ocean sailing let alone sailing directly into a hurricane. I grew up around wooden boats and this is not one I would have gone to sea in even after the re-fits after having seen what I saw and what was actually under the pretty prom dress......

I don't need to read stories in Outside Magazine or anywhere else as I saw the derelict condition of this vessel with my own eyes, on multiple occasions, right down to her structural level. The work BHS did was good from what I saw. The wood used was good from what I saw especially the oak in the early 2000's, what they had to work with, structurally, SUCKED IMHO as seen with my own eyes...

Even more telling of her level of care, or lack there of, is a photo posted by Roger Long of her fuel filers. The fuel in them was as black as coffee. We now know they stuffed 2 micron filters in there, perhaps in an attempt to remedy an "issue"? Perahaps out of ignorance? Who knows, all I know is that fuel on a boat or ship should NEVER look like that, especially if heading into rough weather..

Why would anyone or any organization go to such great lengths to erase such images from history? Who did it? I certainly don't know who but do they are GONE. I know because I linked to them in numerous posts and now the images are GONE.... I should have saved them to my hard drive but that would have been copyright infringement. I tried to do the right thing and then some people SQUASHED the TRUTH and ERASED the images.

It seems quite interesting & telling to me that the only images of her that remain from her time in Boothbay are with fresh coats of paint, a highly varnished wheel & spit shined ready for launch. You can put a prom dress on a pig but she's still a pig... The real meat and potatoes images have been ripped from internet history...

BTW the fuel in the transparent Racor bowls should be red NOT black like coffee...


Here are two image addresses that were of some HORRIFYING photos that have been erased from history.. They were from 2007 well after the major re-fit in the early 2000's..

From 2007now mysteriously missing....

http://www.tallshipbounty.org/photos...U3MzU2ZDA2MmU4


http://www.tallshipbounty.org/photos...M0N2E5NzE2N2Qx


If I had known then that she actually sailed the ocean blue I would have taken extensive photos myself.. I mistakenly assumed she was a dockside attraction like Old Ironsides and the repairs were "good enough"... ..
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Last edited by Maine Sail; 02-16-2013 at 12:27 AM.
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  #1647  
Old 02-15-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

I had not watched it until about an hour ago, because I was too busy at work. I don't know all the characters, but can kind of figure out who they are from their self-serving questions.

I was impressed with the candor of Laura's testimony, and how she did not allow them to lead her. I suspect that she must be under quite a bit of pressure, as certain attorneys are probably trying to build a case for a liability case against everyone, including crew members -- although I suspect that the crew members don't have very "deep pockets." I also don't know whether the maritime limitations apply to crew members also, or just the owner of ship.
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  #1648  
Old 02-15-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maine Sail View Post
I saw her on the rails at Boothbay Harbor Shipyard no less that three times. The most extensive re-fit I saw was the below waterline re-planking back in the early 2000's. Problem was there was nothing much to fasten the planks to....

One would have to ask, if she was completely re-planked in the early 2000's what structural issues could POSSIBLY cause her to need to be re-planed again only a few years later.....????? The rot was so extensive back than I was shocked to see them slapping on new planks over the sad structure. A real "lipstick on a pig" event. The later re-planking also replaced SOME ribs but only the worst of the worst... The stem was cut out in one of the re-fits but I can't recall which one.. When we anchor in Boothbay I would land and walk the dogs at BHS. I liked to walk around the ship as I always love to watch wooden boat construction, having grown up with them..

In October & November I posted/hot linked to NUMEROUS photos from her re-fits at Boothbay. EVERY SINGLE PHOTO/EVIDENCE HAS BEEN WIPED CLEAN FROM THE NET INCLUDING INTERNET ARCHIVE SEARCHES....

Why? How? How do you wipe "internet archives"... That costs some $$$$$$ one would assume..... ?

What are they trying to hide? I said it back in October and I will say it again IMHO this vessel was not fit for open ocean sailing let alone sailing directly into a hurricane.

I don't need to read stories in Outside Magazine or anywhere else as I saw the derelict condition of this vessel with my own eyes on multiple occasions right down to her structural level. The work BHS did was good, the wood used was good, what they had to work with SUCKED IMHO as seen with my own eyes...

Even more telling of her level of care, or lack there of, is a photo posted by Roger Long of her fuel filers. The fuel in them was as black as coffee. We now know they stuffed 2 micron filters in there, perhaps in an attempt to remedy an "issue".... Who knows all I know is that fuel on a boat or ship should NEVER look like that......

Why would anyone or any organization go to such great lengths to erase such images from history? Who did it? I certainly don't know but they are GONE....

It seems quite interesting & telling to me that the only images of her that remain from her time in Boothbay are with fresh coats of paint, a highly varnished wheel & spit shined ready for launch. You can put a prom dress on a pig but she's still a pig... The real meat and potatoes images have been ripped from internet history...

BTW the fuel in the tranparent Racor bowls should be red NOT black like coffee...


Here are two image addresses that were of some HORRIFYING photos that have been erased from history.. They were from 2007 well after the major re-fit in the early 2000's..

From 2007now mysteriously missing....

http://www.tallshipbounty.org/photos...U3MzU2ZDA2MmU4


http://www.tallshipbounty.org/photos...M0N2E5NzE2N2Qx


If I had known then that she actually sailed the ocean blue I would have taken extensive photos myself.. I mistakenly assumed she was a dockside attraction like Old Ironsides and the repairs were "good enough"... ..
Links are broken. Do you publish this here on Sailnet? Someone censored them from here? That would be big time wrong to do that IMHO.

They said that there was huge destruction of the newer work they had done in warly 2000 that I guess you saw because of the lack of ventilation and fresh water intrusions and thats why it didnt last long,

I agree more and more with you accessment about her being let out to sail and not just in a hurricane but at all. I guess if she had to be moved to Flordida it would have been only in optimal conditions and with and escort of some kind. The leaking alone would mean that. None of us would risk taking our boats out for even a day sail in a protected bay if the only way we knew wed saty afloat is if out pumps worked.

She should have stayed a dockside attraction somewhere and not only would her legacy remained intact, peoples lives wouldnt have been lost.

I cant help but think why these people who sailed aboard her thought the amount of water and the deteriorated wood as well as the cobbled solutions were good enough. And then to go blue water with her. And then to sail in hurricane like conditions. She appeared doomed everytime she cast off her lines. That it was only a matter of time.

Another thing bothers me though about Boothbay Shipwright and I know its a very reputable yard. Since they were putting all this good repair on bad structure why did they not cover their own asses by stating that in writing. In todays litigenous society where people know and are quick to cover their asses you would think that that was SOP. If they truly worried that the ship couldnt handle sailing conditions, and I beleive you assessment, why are they saying it could get to the next refit. Why arent they saying we will not certify any fix since it is being put on material as a base which will fail? Any reputable construction builder if he was rehabbing a building wouldnt put the skin on the building of the frame and I beams supporting the building were not sound. Why did they do that? It calls into questions Boothbays ethics?
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  #1649  
Old 02-15-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
"Third Mate on sailing in two hurricanes before Sandy: The main difference is that, in those storms, our bilge pumps kept up.

Crew couldn't get the emergency pump to work. That's the pump no one had been trained to operate...."



https://twitter.com/mikemather


After all it seems that the ship had sailed previously in Hurricanes. Does anybody find normal that with today's way of predicting weather a wooden XVIII century designed ship, mostly of the time in bad sailing condition, had sailed in 3 hurricanes?

It seems he thinks normal that a ship could be maintained afloat because pumps are getting out more water than the one that is coming in. It seems pumps were not used in emergencies but as a normally used component on sailing that ship.

I heard old stories about wooden ships that had to be continually pumped...they were ships in bad shape trying to make their last voyage home...and not always succeeding.
After listening to the Bosun today it was apparent that the Bounty didnt really sail into hrricanes except the last one. This may be an exagreation of the press as well as his statements.

He described their procedure was to stay behind the foreward motion of the hurricane and utilize the winds wrapping around it from behind. If they accelerated or started catching up to the hrricane they deployed a sea anchor, anchor, or even hove too for a few days in one instance.

This is where the Captain said and meant he was
Quote:
chasing hurricanes
. I understand his tactic now and it is not unlike what Vendee Globe or Whitbread sailors did in some of their tactics with low pressure systems. Of course the conditions will be heavy duty as it still is a big storm with winds and seas, but with the hurricane pulling away from you it allows you max winds with the every present danger pulling away and conditions improving. To me he put to rest today the newsmedias frenzy about teh phrase chasing hurricanes. He also commented the Bounty was such a pig, normal SOG was 4-5. In 30 knots they could actually get up to 7-9.

This in no way is an excuse for sailing towrad Hurricane Sandy which he did, Also apparent by Maines comments and first hand eyes she maybe should never have been allowed to sail,,,,ever....Just be a dock attraction.
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Old 02-15-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
"Third Mate on sailing in two hurricanes before Sandy: The main difference is that, in those storms, our bilge pumps kept up.

Crew couldn't get the emergency pump to work. That's the pump no one had been trained to operate...."



https://twitter.com/mikemather

It seems he thinks normal that a ship could be maintained afloat because pumps are getting out more water than the one that is coming in. It seems pumps were not used in emergencies but as a normally used component on sailing that ship.

.
This is so the crux of things. Would you ever sail your boat like this? ( except emergency)
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