HMS Bounty in trouble... - Page 167 - SailNet Community

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  #1661  
Old 02-16-2013
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Thumbs up Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
Day 4 hearing report from gCaptain.com
Love this guys writing style.

The Illusion of Experience – Bounty Hearings – Day 4 | gCaptain - Maritime & Offshore News
I like his writing style too, even though he sometimes seems to sensationalize and choose issues on the periphery. Not unlike others though

For instance he talked about the obvious lack of true experience about the two Bounty officers who tesitified and ridicules thier answers of thinking that using DAP or their ways of caulking as the marks of an inexperienced crew in " love " with their vessel. And that it was the "new" teaching the "new" improper or less than techniques. He comapared that with Kosojowski ( sp) the project manager who testified earlier about DAP not being used because it was inferior and who put down the on-board maitainence techniques of the crew. This is all well and good, but the gCaptain writer either was asleep or failed to mentiuon that the 3rd officer said in his testimony he would loved to have worked with Kosokowski for a long period of time so he could learn from him as that was his foeld and specialty. Kosokowski self admitted that he had no real training ewither and learned from others,

The gCaptain also failed to mention that many of Koksokowskis statements were rebutted and refutted by Jankovmicz the 40 year exeprience professional shipyard manager, his boss. After personally listening to Kosokowsji I found it incredulous to beleive he took pictures of substandard stuff and never showed them to anyone not even his boss until the CG said they were doing an inquirey. He took no notes on the project, yet Jankovmicz said the shipyard had boxes of notes on the project. Kosokowski said he told Walbriidge ( supposedly) to change his method of sailing because of what he thought MIGHT be present, and when further questioned by the CG Commander he said he met with Walbridge 30 times. and couldnt rememeber whether anyone else was present. Then he miracuously remembered where there were 5 present, but no one else remembered him saying what he claimed to Walbridge. I found Kosokowskis testimony questionable and self serving like he was covering his own ass. The CG Commander must have also as he asked him that directly, "Are you covering your ass" The g Captain writer reported none of this...


Heres what the WAYV repeorted ( they are doing the live stream
Quote:
Project manager Joe Jakomovicz, who has 40 years of experience, said Kosakowski's analysis is incorrect because Kosawkowski has "five or six years of experience."

Kosakowski worked with the Bounty when it visited Boothbay Harbor Shipyard in 2006 for repairs. He said the decay in the hull of the Bounty was not the worst he has ever seen.

His younger colleague believes the structural integrity of the hull was in question and has second thoughts about the decision of the Bounty's owners to set sail without a certificate of inspection.
I have watched the tesimony every day. I find the gcaptain reporting to be one dimensional and havent yet decided whether it is intentional with an agenda, or that they have selective hearing. Either way it certaianly is not even handed anymore than the sensationalism of other reporting I have seen.
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Last edited by chef2sail; 02-16-2013 at 01:53 PM.
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  #1662  
Old 02-16-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
I have watched the tesimony every day. I find the gcaptain reporting to be one dimensional and havent yet decided whether it is intentional with an agenda, or that they have selective hearing. Either way it certaianly is not even handed anymore than the sensationalism of other reporting I have seen.
That is why I prefer to hear with my own ears instead of letting someone gives me a reader digest version of it. Unfortunately, on Friday the streaming video was not working well, lot of good important testimony was not available. Also there is not way to get back to watch it again. And the beginning of each hearing, they delete the old clip. There was no court stenographer presented i hearing.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

I'm not sure if anyone posted this already in this massive thread, but in case they didn't here is an interesting national geographic clip with some early footage of when the HMS Bounty was built, as well as some footage from when it was sailed to make the movie "Mutiny on the Bounty". Sorry if its a repost...


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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockDAWG View Post
That is why I prefer to hear with my own ears instead of letting someone gives me a reader digest version of it. Unfortunately, on Friday the streaming video was not working well, lot of good important testimony was not available. Also there is not way to get back to watch it again. And the beginning of each hearing, they delete the old clip. There was no court stenographer presented i hearing.
If you try the link I posted eaerlier it seems to work back to the stream. Res real tesimony is so much better with facial movement, inflections and the comlete in context ******. Wish it was transcribed so I could read what I miss but I cant find that.

Stream came back about 3:30 or so,,,i tuned in at 4. Was interesting. Just sad though.
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  #1665  
Old 02-17-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

I too like the writing style of the gcaptain.com, but also think that he gives an honest summary of the day's testimony. There are many details that are not covered, but IMHO he is covering the major points and does not appear to have an ax to grind unlike many to the so called journalist of today.
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Old 02-17-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lancelot9898 View Post
I too like the writing style of the gcaptain.com, but also think that he gives an honest summary of the day's testimony. There are many details that are not covered, but IMHO he is covering the major points and does not appear to have an ax to grind unlike many to the so called journalist of today.
He is writing to his audience at gCaptain, professionals running cargo and passenger ships.
I think they might be incredulous of the difference between the inspections and surveys, and requirements between them and Tall Ships.

The gCaptain mob are very interested in it... the articles are 4 of the top 5 most read... with the Carnival Triumph problem coming in at #3.


What surprises me most is that everyone is talking! I thought everyone would decline to answer questions. Only the owner has refused. Startling stuff.

I would love to be there, or to be able to watch the feed live.

The tall Ship industry around the world is gunna be given one big shak-up after this. I doubt the old "they look lovely we need to keep them no matter what" will be ditched and unless the ship and crew are worthy they will be immovable meuseum pieces.
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Old 02-17-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lancelot9898 View Post
I too like the writing style of the gcaptain.com, but also think that he gives an honest summary of the day's testimony. There are many details that are not covered, but IMHO he is covering the major points and does not appear to have an ax to grind unlike many to the so called journalist of today.
Are you watching the live feed or have you been there? If so it would be great for you to also post your observations?

Dave
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  #1668  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

While I'm not a fan of regulation, I think most of the tall ships have stricter regulatory requirements than the Bounty due to the Bounty not taking paying passengers. I think that loop hole will be tighten up and feel disgusted with the Bounty organization for using that loop hole.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Mark,

I'm too surprised that people are talking as much as they are even though some may not be as forthright as others. The lawyers are going after the deep pockets and that points to the owner who is taking the 5th.
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Old 02-17-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
...
The tall Ship industry around the world is gunna be given one big shak-up after this. I doubt the old "they look lovely we need to keep them no matter what" will be ditched and unless the ship and crew are worthy they will be immovable meuseum pieces.
To the exception of Germany and US most countries with a maritime tradition has only one or two true tall ships that in a way or another are state funded and are in good condition. There are are also several countries, including Britain, Portugal or Sweden that have several other wooden tall ships on display I would not as dock attractions but as museums and not in sail condition.


Almost all of the Tall ships are today steel ships justly because it is a lot more expensive to maintain a wooden ship than a steel one.

I don't believe this will have any influence regarding European ships. As I have said not only mostly of the ships are state funded as the European legislation in what regards private owned boats and inspection is a lot more tight than the American one, being Europe a nanny state and all that jazz.

I believe the repercussions will be mostly over US Tall ships and in the end if reasonable measures were taken it will not affect negatively the Industry.

If the Bounty was classified as a boat restricted to sail in Coastal waters with winds in not excess of 5B (a fair weather limited boat) and had mandatory CG demanding inspections (not as a dock attraction) nothing of this would have happened.

Nothing is as damaging to the tall ship Industry as the series of accidents that have been happening on the last years with Tall ships.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 02-17-2013 at 10:35 AM.
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