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  #1681  
Old 02-17-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
...
Truth is, there are very, very few countries left in the world that actually give a stuff about their maritime heritage (Portugal and New Zealand are the only two I know) - and the direct result is that the general populace don't either.

...
That is not fair neither true. Most European countries have a proud naval history and the populations are aware and proud of that. Not only Portuguese but Dutch, Spanish, Italians, Germans, Russians, Danes, French and British, just to mention some, have great naval traditions and all own more than one tall ship, mostly Navy or Merchant Marine owned (that means state anyway) professionally crewed. The boats are in good condition and almost all have circumnavigated probably more than one time. Here are some of them:



















Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 02-17-2013 at 07:48 PM.
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  #1682  
Old 02-17-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
That is not fair neither true. Most European countries have a proud naval history and the populations are aware and proud of that. Not only Portuguese but Dutch, Spanish, Italians, Germans, Russians, Danes, French and British, just to mention some, have great naval traditions and all own more than one tall ship, mostly Navy or Merchant Marine owned (that means state anyway) professionally crewed. The boats are in good condition and almost all have circumnavigated probably more than one time. Here are some of them:
Paulo, you missed my point. Australia has "more than one Tall Ship" too - and at least one I know of, the Endeavour Replica, has circumnavigated via the Horn at least once.. yet, I did not list Australia simply because it's a well-known fact: our government does not give a stuff about preserving our maritime heritage.

Having a "proud naval history" is a wonderful thing - hey, even China has a proud naval history if you can find someone who'll talk about it - but that doesn't translate to (a) government $$$ to pay for the keep and restoration of what they currently have and (b) government courage to enact legislation to protect it.

If you look deeper into the way most of the Tall Ships are funded, you'll find vast private $$$ being poured in for overhauls and re-fits for tax or philanthropic reasons with, if they're incredibly lucky, maybe a few pennies from some state Trust or Naval Fund for on-going maintenance and operations (or simply free berthage and the like) - and no legislation to protect said ship or ships eventually being sold offshore to whoever wants it. If you doubt me, look at the bruhaha surrounding who will pay the bill any time one of these ships needs an overhaul..

I agree that the French have done something to protect their old fishing fleets and run a few festivals like Douarnenez (my apologies for forgetting them) but am not aware of the British Government, for example, doing anything similar outside of the Norfolk Broads.

But once no-one visits the ships any more (certainly attendance at Maritime Museums in this country is dropping every year) eventually those private funds dry up and the vessels disappear.. It's a sorry fact of life, but a fact it is. ..and incidents like those surrounding the "Bounty" are an unfortunate symptom of that fact.
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Last edited by Classic30; 02-17-2013 at 09:01 PM.
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  #1683  
Old 02-17-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Maybe you are right but in what regards Europe I don't think that is the case. The British "wasted" a fortune recovering the Cutty Sark that was destroyed some years ago by a fire:

Curator’s tours of the Cutty Sark : Events : Visit : RMG

The Swedish took from the bottom of the ocean the Vasa, a XVII century ship, preserved it and put it in a museum at a fabulous cost.

K-Something,Blonde: Vasa Museet

The French besides having several Tall ships have almost finish a new one, a copy of L' Herminoine the ship on which La Fayette embarked in 1780, to bring help and support to the American insurgents.

<iframe width="890" height="501" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/QoOd1w0NjWI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hermione, freedom

Maritime museums in Europe are popular places and I would say that existent tall ships here are not at risk and have enough funding, state or from private sponsorship.

Regards

Paulo
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  #1684  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Maritime museums in Europe are popular places and I would say that existent tall ships here are not at risk and have enough funding, state or from private sponsorship.
Paulo, that is good to hear and I do wish that were true in this part of the world. It seems to me that whenever governments need money, "non essential" things like maritime heritage tends to suffer.

It would be interesting to know what the state of maritime heritage funding is like in America, although, if the "Bounty" is an example it can't be too healthy. Given the amount of money the US government is reported to spend on a non-essential like their space program, it's a little surprising to me that more isn't being done to ensure vessels like the "Bounty" aren't maintained in better condition..
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  #1685  
Old 02-17-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...17393001_n.jpg

San Salvador, re-creation of Juan Cabrillo's 16th-century ship in San Diego, USA.

A few items may not be typical of Spanish ships from 400 years ago:

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...44000792_n.jpg
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

And


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Old 02-17-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
...Given the amount of money the US government is reported to spend on a non-essential like their space program, it's a little surprising to me that more isn't being done to ensure vessels like the "Bounty" aren't maintained in better condition...
GIVE ME A BREAK!! While I love sailing and tall ships, suggesting that the space program is less essential to our collective well-being than refurbishing old rotted out movie props is really stretching the limits of credibility. Given the defense and intelligence ramifications of space, I think there's pretty strong argument that the government should be funding space program - much stronger than the other option that you propose.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

It seems to me that most parts of the world offer an interested public and some degree of assistance and funding for classic or historic vessels. Here in Victoria BC it's tourism based on whale watching.The tallship regattas have been canceled by the city Even the Salts tall ships don't get a break on moorage. See them at SALTS Sail and Life Training Society - Home and for my own little tallship try '.
Fortunately this lament is buoyed by seeing PCP's note.

Last edited by Capt Len; 02-21-2013 at 03:10 PM. Reason: spelling
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  #1689  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by rgscpat View Post
San Salvador, re-creation of Juan Cabrillo's 16th-century ship in San Diego, USA.
I don't see your point. With enough time and money anyone can build a new/old ship anywhere, anytime they choose. Here's one of "ours" no better, no worse than that one: Notorious (ship) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Without government involvement in setting the right rules & regulations framework and providing funding either directly or through some other framework to keep it afloat for the benefit of the people, it's no different to any other private yacht...
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  #1690  
Old 02-17-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
Given the amount of money the US government is reported to spend on a non-essential like their space program...
You mean the space program that launches all those satellites that allow us unprecedented ability to forecast and track storms so that mariners shouldn't get caught in harms way?

In the Bounty skipper's case -- yeah, absolutely useless...
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