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post #1741 of 1950 Old 02-20-2013
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Since this subject has over 100 entries, rather than reading them all, I was wondering if a wooden ship of this size could not be raised and restored if not left too long. Has there been any discussion on this possibility.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by NCC320 View Post
Chef,

Not that it changes much,

Re: Changing course to SW. While most, including the second mate/navigator, seemed not to know why, one person stated that the reason was that when the storm didn't turn as the captain expected, he decided to go SW to get under the protection of the shore below Cape Hatteras, where the winds would be less but favorable for the trip south. This is consistent with how he handled the other two hurricanes.

Re: Debunking looking to sail into hurricanes, while most claimed never to have heard of it, one person, the AB I believe, said that he had heard words that tended to support that saying. And that he personally was looking forward to gaining experience in hurricane type weather. He aspires to be a captain, but when he was asked, if you were the captain, what would you have done, he said he would have moved up river and stayed at a pier.

I don't recall the exact words, so if you like, correct them since you seem to have pretty well have most of it recorded.
The situations were different I thnk. The CG Commander asked him about the statement the Captain made" I like to follow hurricanes" . In the other two instances where the third mate testified they followed a hurricane which had already gone by rather than go across the face of Sandy as they did and into the Graveyard of the Atlantic- Hatteras and the Gulf Stream. In the other instance by slowing down they could get away from the sea state and winds so there was a measure of control. Sandy they were into it facing it coming at them.

He described in the last instance in the Gulf the were behind the hurricane which was moving N and then NE and they were following it far back in the SW quadrant when they gained so much speed (11 knots he said) and the hurricane slowed to 4 knots that they started getting into it too much so they slowed the Bounty by heaving too for two days

You are right no one seems to really now why he changed course to SW from E when had they continued they would have been ok. They all seem pretty inept about the navigational aspects and left it up to Walbridge and asked no questions. I find that very odd as they said he was a teacher and never minded explaining thing to them.

This also goes to the total inexperience of the crew. This was striking in all their testimony from the novice teaching the novice how to caulk, to no one knowing how to operate the pumps, to having an engineer with no real experience on marine engines, and the list goes on. The questioners were obviusly stunned in their answers to the most basic questions I observed.


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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by weephee View Post
Since this subject has over 100 entries, rather than reading them all, I was wondering if a wooden ship of this size could not be raised and restored if not left too long. Has there been any discussion on this possibility.
It went down intact it almnost appears. Thats an interesting question.

What would they restore it to though it was in bad shape and shouldnt have been sailing in the first place. She had been up for sale for a while with no buyers and was financially backrupt essentially and couldnt make enough even as a dockside attraction. These are so expensive to maintain. As Paulo has pointed out the succceessful tall ships are kept afloat by countries governments or really well endowed foundations.


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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

While there were so many decisions made by the Captain that were ill advised, the decsion to alter course to SW from E seemed reasonable. The ship was incapable of moving fast enough to clear such a massive storm had Bounty continued on the E heading so consequently remaining in front of that storm would have meant certain diaster. Plus rescue would have been more uncertain the further away from the coast.

Going SW allowed for a following wind and being in the SW quartant allowed for lesser wind speed due to the counterclockwise rotation and the northern heading of the cane. Plus I don't believe the Bounty ever saw hurricane force winds. My 2 cents.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by weephee View Post
Since this subject has over 100 entries, rather than reading them all, I was wondering if a wooden ship of this size could not be raised and restored if not left too long. Has there been any discussion on this possibility.


It sank in 4426 meters. Thats 14,521 feet.

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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by lancelot9898 View Post
While there were so many decisions made by the Captain that were ill advised, the decsion to alter course to SW from E seemed reasonable. .
Gonig SW put him into the Gulf Stream with a stong NE wind. As they entered the edge of the Gulf Stream they suddenly took on water and sank.



So it was a rediculous, bad, insane, imho criminally negligent course change.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Every mariner should, at the very very least, read Mario Vittone' coverage of Day 6 of the hearings. His analysis of what went and what was done wrong Will save lives, for all confronted with a dangerous situation as well as for those who may bear and overcome the Hubris of Captain Wallbridge.
The Cost of Waiting – Bounty Hearings – Day 6 | gCaptain - Maritime & Offshore News
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by Capt.Mhack View Post
Pretty much sums it up:

"Here is what Matt Sanders, Bounty’s second mate, testified to Commander Carroll of the Coast Guard concerning the bilge pumps today.

Carroll: “The hydraulic pumps – when did you first use them?”

Sanders: “On the 28th” [October 28th - the day prior to sinking]

Carroll: “Was it used any other time before that in the season?”

Sanders: “Not that I know of.”

--
Carroll: “Were the crew taught how to use the hydraulic pumps?”

Sanders: “No, I don’t think so.”

Carroll: “Were they trained on the gasoline-powered pump?”

Sanders: “No, they weren’t.”

--

When asked why the portable gasoline pump was not routinely tested, maintained, and trained on, the answers ranged from absurd to worse. No one aboard seemed to have any idea that if you left gasoline in a can for 18 months, it would be a bad thing.

Faunt: “I’d seen it work once when we bought it and put it away and left it alone on Robin’s orders.”

Carroll: “Why?”

Faunt: “Because it wasn’t particularly good and we didn’t want to wear it out by using it. And it was gasoline and we were worried about fire!”

--
NTSB Investigator Captain Rob Jones pressed Faunt to explain why they wouldn’t want to practice with the ship’s portable emergency bilge pump and use it periodically to ensure that it was in working order. Faunt’s incredulous response, “But the pump was gasoline, why would we risk using it if we didn’t have to?” When he was asked why the hydraulic pumps weren’t ever used, he replied, “There was concern about wear, so they were held in reserve.”

--
On October 25th, Bounty was preparing to sail into the Atlantic and dodge a hurricane. Three of the five pumps had not been tested or trained in anyone’s memory. The ship’s diesel engines and generators had no maintenance records and their status was unknown. And on the way to New London from the shipyard, the 66 year-old Faunt, a five-season veteran aboard Bounty, noticed that even the electric bilge pumps weren’t working as well as they had been. He had been running those pumps for years and knew how they operated. He brought his concerns to Robin Walbridge.

Faunt: “Robin thought it might have to do with the impellers.”

Carroll: ”Did he ever check them?”

Faunt: ”Not that I know of.”
--

Less than four days later, Bounty was sinking. The bilge pumps couldn’t keep up with the water, one generator was gone and the other was about to go. Walbridge and Faunt – the ship’s default electrician and GMDSS Operator – were attempting distress calls on the HF Radio and the INMARSAT C. They couldn’t get them to work.

Carroll: ”Did you test them before you left New London?”

Faunt: ”No, we didn’t.”"


Sins of Omission – Bounty Hearings – Day 5 | gCaptain - Maritime & Offshore News
Jesus, this is even worse than what I thought and I thought pretty bad about all this.

Really unbelievable.

Of course this is even worse since we know that ship made water...always and that in a storm would make even more.

If so, and everybody especially the Captain knew this, how can be accepted that the Captain had not his crew trained in servicing and working with all pumping systems? I don't understand. They say that they trained a lot of security procedures and did not know how to operate all pump systems in a boat that makes water???? and never trained working with two of the three systems available? This seems negligence to me.

Regards

Paulo


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Last edited by PCP; 02-20-2013 at 01:17 PM.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanseamour View Post
Every mariner should, at the very very least, read Mario Vittone' coverage of Day 6 of the hearings. His analysis of what went and what was done wrong Will save lives, for all confronted with a dangerous situation as well as for those who may bear and overcome the Hubris of Captain Wallbridge.
The Cost of Waiting – Bounty Hearings – Day 6 | gCaptain - Maritime & Offshore News
Good article by Vittone


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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by seanseamour View Post
Every mariner should, at the very very least, read Mario Vittone' coverage of Day 6 of the hearings. His analysis of what went and what was done wrong Will save lives, for all confronted with a dangerous situation as well as for those who may bear and overcome the Hubris of Captain Wallbridge.
The Cost of Waiting – Bounty Hearings – Day 6 | gCaptain - Maritime & Offshore News
Great article!!!

Quote:
With compression fractures to his spine, three broken ribs, and a dislocated shoulder, Prokosh looked up to see the ship’s rig as it came down on his head. ”I got tagged by the main top yard – it came down like a dart,” Prokosh told investigators. Now he was underwater too and fighting to breathe – to live.
Its a must read.

Again it shows the changing of the boat to keep it under 'recreational' rules instead of what it should have been.

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