HMS Bounty in trouble... - Page 19 - SailNet Community

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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Vessels Lost, Missing, or in Danger
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  #181  
Old 11-02-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by preventec47 View Post
I have seen the plot that shows the Bounty's position for what appears
to be just the last 24 hours or so. Has anyone seen any plots showing
the Bounty's track for each day since leaving the dock in Connecticutt ?

I've read that he first headed due east before turning south and I'd
like to know how far east he went before the turn.

I saw a projected Hurricane cone track published on the 24th the day
before the Bounty left and that hurricane track shows it goiing
out to sea instead of turning into land in New England.

If, the captain used the projected track from the 24th, I can
see his reasoning for hugging the coast line.............
If you open this link and change the hours on the top to 360 and Update, you'll see it all. They didn't make any effort after leaving Long Island Sound to head East of a 900 mile wide storm, as early reports suggested. On their day of departure, the storms size was absolutely clear and all models had it coming to Hatteras, with almost all showing a turn to NJ. You can google the date read storm reports.

Bounty

If you watch the video above, it seems Robin was a nice guy. But he also said they "chased hurricanes". The pieces are starting to suggest a very intentional act to grab the Western side of the storm and be pushed south. They had done it before. But lion tamers are sometimes attacked by their lions.

Some continue to repeat that they weren't actually in a hurricane. I find that irrelevant. They seem to be intentionally in very heavy weather and looking for the southerly flow of the Western side of the storm. That choice left few if any options, if it turned out to be too tough for the boat or crew to handle.

Quote:
a tall 25 wave could be 25 feet above the
rear of the boat.washing over it. This is what we
are talking about here as far as the ship taking
on lots of water. Right ?
We don't know, but the survivors should be able to tell us. Also possible that planking let loose. Or both.
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  #182  
Old 11-02-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Hello, wrongful death lawsuit...Wonder what a jury will think about this dude's actions? I don't think it will matter that the actual conditions leading to her death were merely a gale instead of a full-blown hurricane. The conditions were such that a reasonably prudent professional captain would not have set out to sea in that particular boat at that time. If I were plaintiff's counsel, I would replay the YouTube video portion at 10 minutes 40 seconds as many times as humanely possible, where the "captain" explains how he chases hurricanes.

It's nice that some of you are so sweet and forgiving, but a young woman died as a result of extremely poor decision making by someone in charge of a boat. A captain of a boat is responsible for his crew, period, end of story. This was not an act of god, it was an act of pure stupidity and recklessness.

This incident also demonstrates the fallacy of the importance of years of experience and/or a USCG Captain's license. Neither one means anything without common sense. Applying the pareto principle to sailing, the successful completion of a cruise depends 80% on the captain and 20% on the boat. The ability of the captain is 80% common sense, good judgment and problem-solving ability, and 20% technical know how gained through study and experience.

If you have read the posts on the listerv long enough, you will already have realized there is no shortage of fools who take to the sea as an escape. Do not risk your life on someone who does not demonstrate common sense and sound judgment.

I am beginning to see a pattern on the listserv. After every major storm, we do a play by play on some jackass who decides to leave port immediately prior to the arrival of the storm. Who is going to be next unfortunate victim?
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Last edited by jameswilson29; 12-16-2012 at 01:35 PM.
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  #183  
Old 11-02-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

When I was young an old sailor told me something & I always remembered it. " You cannot bullsXXt the ocean."

Last edited by kjango; 11-02-2012 at 10:17 AM. Reason: I was censored
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  #184  
Old 11-02-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
.. The conditions were such that a reasonably prudent professional captain would not have set out to sea in that particular boat at that time. If I were plaintiff's counsel, I would replay the YouTube video portion at 10 minutes 40 seconds as many times as humanely possible, where the "captain" explains how he chases hurricanes.

It's nice that some of you are so sweet and forgiving, but a young woman died as a result of extremely poor decision making by someone in charge of a boat. A captain of a boat is responsible for his crew, period, end of story. This was not an act of god, it was an act of pure stupidity and recklessness.

...

If you have read the posts on the listerv long enough, you will already have realized there is no shortage of fools who take to the sea as an escape. Do not risk your life on someone who does not demonstrate common sense and sound judgment.

I am beginning to see a pattern on the listserv. After every major storm, we do a play by play on some jackass who decides to leave port immediately prior to the arrival of the storm. Who is going to be next unfortunate victim?
I was really shocked with what this Captain says on that video. I knew several Captains that worked on the white fleet, the last sail fishing ships and they all had a natural reverence about the sea power and all feared bad weather. They were no cowards, just men used to earn their lives sailing on one of the nastiest seas (Greenland and Newfound land).

Their views about the sea and seamanship strongly contrasts with the ones expressed by Bounty's Captain.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 11-02-2012 at 09:47 AM.
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  #185  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

After hearing about the video of the Captain and his cavilier attitude concerning hurriacanes, I question the licensing process. I would think the initial licensing process might be pretty stringent, but are there periodic reviews? Adequate periodic reviews? I would think that such an interview would be cause for him loosing his ticket.

Then there is the question of adequate regulation concering the design, construction, maintenance and operation of the vessel. A 50 year old wooden ship built as a movie prop does not pass the smell test. I know for a fact that there are too many useless regulations. Try getting a permit for building a dock and bulkhead in Maryland. Regulations should be based upon good engineering practices and not on burecratic bull ****.
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  #186  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

The interesting legal liability issue is whether the owner would be liable for the woman's death after this video is posted to YouTube, assuming he continues to employ the captain.

I believe he is the president and CEO of a large intl. corp, Dow Corning maybe? Find the deep pockets, as they say in the PI field.

If you continue to employ this kind of captain, should you be held personally liable for his negligence? Does the posting of the video constitute sufficient notice/knowledge of the captain's recklessness and incompetence?

Last edited by jameswilson29; 11-02-2012 at 10:04 AM.
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  #187  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

The ultimate goal of choosing a captain for a ship should be to find one who is experienced, skilled and knowledgeable enough to keep the ship and crew out of those situations where all of the captain's experience, skill and knowledge would not be needed to save the ship and crew.
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  #188  
Old 11-02-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

You guys are really too much. Sitting in your computer chairs making speculations and pronouncements with only the evidence you can find on your computer screens....and then whats worse...making judgements with the limited information you have. Some of you have appointed yourself members of the jury, donned spacesuits, taken an oath not to allow or listen to any evidence or arguments which are contrary to what you think, listened to only the first 10 minutes of the prosecutors evidence, and delivered your verdict. Hohw can you even form an opinion on this until there are more facts....especially first hand statements.

Most of you are adults who have made done things in your hisory you may not be proud of and even made stupid statements youd love to retract. Using some statement of You tube ( which could of been altered even) , which could have been taken out of context, which really has shown to have no relevance to the captain leaving on this journey and then making it the central theme of your hysterionics is ridiculous.

There beleive it or not may be other scenerios to this accident then a man hell bent on dying and taken 15 people with him while he commited suicide.

Maybe something catastrophic happened to the ship physically which the bulider or restoreing commpany did which the captain didnt know about. Maybe they used defective materials or a defective process in repairing the ship, how would you know? You wount even wait to find out...guilty as charged

Maybe the captain was not even in control of the ship, maybe he was hurt, maybe there was a mutiny who knows for sure yet.

No person who left on board that day was forced to by gunpoint as far as I know, the forecasts were out.

While the INITIAL evidence looks suspect it is only the beginning of the evidence and only what you can see from your computer screens. To draw conclusions from it is dangerous, unsubstantiated, and shallow IMHO.

Oh yeah some denizen will post like they always do that we are doing this so we can learn some kind of "lesson" or "teaching experience" from it, when actually up to know it has been a character assasination by the internet mob who love to speculate on others tradgedy. Ive seen it happen here with the Rule 62, Fairlones Incident, Encenada incident, the lady leaving on the boat in England, and now this tragedy. What is it about tradgedies which brings the worst out in some of you? You dont even wait for all the facts before your theories start and then come the judgement. But I guess thats easy because no one knows who you really are making these public statements, as you hide behind your screen.

Slow down here, two people have died......hardly any of the facts are in yet. The ship left on the 25th,THE CG is remarkable. Those are really the only facts which are really undisputed and have been verified. There will be plenty of time to understand and process the facts and I am sure it will be done by real experts on the field and real lawyers rather thean the computer screen lawyers here. Then and only then will we really have the truth about this. Until then tell me....what pleasure do you derive from speculating on this.

Dave
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  #189  
Old 11-02-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Another way to look at it is.....you roll the dice & take your own chance.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jameswilson29 View Post
The interesting legal liability issue is whether the owner would be liable for the woman's death after this video is posted to YouTube, assuming he continues to employ the captain.

I believe he is the president and CEO of a large intl. corp, Dow Corning maybe? Find the deep pockets, as they say in the PI field.

If you continue to employ this kind of captain, should you be held personally liable for his negligence? Does the posting of the video constitute sufficient notice/knowledge of the captain's recklessness and incompetence?
Tricky question. You would first have to be established that the captain was serious when he made the "chasing hurricanes" comment. You would need testimony of the crew that either he said that and followed up on his word or that he had established a history of putting the ship and crew in stormy weather while avoiding calmer weather.

Then you would have to establish if the owners knew about the video. That would require eye-witness testimony or some documentation proving the owners were aware of the video.

If you didn't have that you would need to convince a judge or jury that it would be a reasonable expectation to say the owners SHOULD have known about the interview as it was their responsibility to be proactively knowledgeable on what activities were taking place on the ship. Any lack of knowledge on their part about the captain's activities and attitudes, especially regarding safety, could be construed as negligence on the part of the owners.

You can be sure the insurance company lawyers are already looking into this. This video is very damning.
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