HMS Bounty in trouble... - Page 22 - SailNet Community
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post #211 of 1950 Old 11-02-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
one fact I know is that if he is found to have been the whole cause he paid the ultimate price.
And that could be viewed as rough justice. The problem is he wasn't the only one.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

While you all are trying to respond to me remember I am not defending the captain or his actions. Not to be politically correct, cause the chips should fall where they may. Lets find all the chips first and examine them.

dave


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post #213 of 1950 Old 11-02-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by preventec47 View Post
In the world of aviation, I know that certain kinds of conditions require
certain kinds of equipment and special training certifications.
I wonder if in the nautical world if certain kinds of boats either
by size or type or category etc could legally be restricted
from venturing into certain sea states. Further that
any captain after the fact having violated the rules could
be liable legally for having done so. Carrying passengers
verses not is a big distincition in aviation and in this case
the untrained crew or many of them might be characterized
as passengers based upon actual training history.

Also, it has been mentioned several times that the
winds going against the gulf stream would result
in worse conditions, ... why not invent a new term
of airspeed called air vs water speed or hydromic relative
air speed etc. I assume the seastate of a 25 knot wind
pushing against a 7 knot gulf stream would be the equivalent
of a 32 knot wind over calm seas. Right ?
The coast guard required the Pride of Baltimore II to be designed differently (higher free board, larger engine, different ballasting) after sinking of the original Pride. I had crewed on the original Pride, and knew some of the crew that was on the ship when it sank.


"Guided by the experience of the original Pride, the Board determined that this vessel could better fulfill the mission of Globe-trotting Ambassador that had evolved over the years if she was larger and had more cruising range both under sail and under power. It was also determined that Pride II would be licensed by the US Coast Guard as a subchapter "T" vessel approved for carrying passengers. With these guidelines in hand, designer Gillmer set out to create a new Pride that would look much like the original on the outside but have more contemporary amenities and safety features below deck."

Regards

Last edited by casey1999; 11-02-2012 at 02:58 PM.
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post #214 of 1950 Old 11-02-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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The problem is he wasn't the only one.-sloopJonB
Probably correct....time will tell


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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Agree, we as a society have become too politically correct.
May be or may be NOT. I think our society have become a whining society. No one is willing to take responsibility for oneself. We have lost our spirits of self-reliance.


Fine Print:
I am old school. Integrity is to do the right thing even when no one is watching.
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post #216 of 1950 Old 11-02-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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While you all are trying to respond to me remember I am not defending the captain or his actions. Not to be politically correct, cause the chips should fall where they may. Lets find all the chips first and examine them.

dave
Chef, I appreciate your call not to rush to judge, but there are a lot of experienced captains that question why the Bounty set sail.:

Local captain shocked and dismayed by sinking of HMS Bounty - Baltimore Sun

It is also human nature to judge prior to knowing all the facts, and is hard to surpress. But even when you have a long jury trial with all the facts presented, justice is many times not served.
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post #217 of 1950 Old 11-02-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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May be or may be NOT. I think our society have become a whining society. No one is willing to take responsibility for oneself. We have lost our spirits of self-reliance.
I hope this is going to be different. Remember that the reason of the inquery is not to find if the Captain took or not bad decisions : "Coast Guard investigations of marine casualties and accidents are for the purpose of taking appropriate measures for promoting safety of life and property and are not intended to fix civil or criminal responsibility".

Remember that have been several accidents with tall ships and the public demands measures to be taken in what regards safety. If they don't propose measures to control the risks of sailing on those ships, and remember these ships take public and teenagers to sail, next time a accident happens it will be said that was because they had sit and watch, doing nothing.

I think many things can be purposed: a sensible minimum crew requirement for each boat, a minimum sailing qualification on these type of ships for each crew member, regular and very frequent inspections for old boats and so on.

Also in what regards wooden boats it makes all sense to have a permanent naval carpenter as part of the crew. When ships were made of wood the carpenter was an indispensable member of the crew and the one that advised the captain what the boat could endure and when was time to stop sailing and take defensive measures. He could also made emergency repairs and the ship had aboard material for that.

The crew on the original Bounty had not only a master carpenter as also two other auxiliary to take care of any emergency.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 11-02-2012 at 02:53 PM.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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NO. Not at all.
I worded that badly.

I should have said does not a 25 knot wind pushing over opposing 7 knot current
result in the same sea state as a 32 knot wind blowing over water
that is not moving. My use of the terms "calm seas" screwed up
the meaning.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

FWIW, Pride II Capt job description:

Pride of Baltimore II Job Descriptions
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Chef, I appreciate your call not to rush to judge, but there are a lot of experienced captains that question why the Bounty set sail.-Casey1999
As do I. Hopefully that comes out. And also those who tried or attempted to dissuade him. Time will tell this.

Of course I was summarily awarded the Darwin award by a quick to judge SN who beleived because i stayed with my boat during the storm that my judgement was not to be trusted.

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It is also human nature to judge prior to knowing all the facts, and is hard to surpress- Casey1999
It is something which people who have good judgement learn to control or their decisions will fall vistim of their own haste and immediate gratification. One of the lessons of Rule 62
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