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  #291  
Old 11-04-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

It's really simple, Jon. I know that I don't know everything. Therefore, I'm willing to wait.

What's your hurry?
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  #292  
Old 11-04-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
OK, I'll try one more time...

I'll accept that that the possibility exists that there may have been factors that compelled the master of the BOUNTY to depart New London when she did, and attempt to shoot the gap between Hatteras and the eye of a storm 800+ miles in diameter, featuring the lowest barometric pressure ever recorded north of Cape Hatteras...

Once again, can anyone here even IMAGINE, or suggest any likely scenarios/factors that would compel the skipper to take such a risk, or make such a decision appear even remotely prudent, or seamanlike?

Please, feel free to use your imaginations... (grin) I'm really curious to hear what some might feel may have justified such a departure, in such a vessel, in such circumstances...
That's the real reason for all the discussion. There is a TON of discussion about this everywhere. What on earth could possibly have been the reason to leave port at the same time sailors up and down the coast were running the other way. It just makes no sense.

This is a pretty damning piece concerning the ship's condition:http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/n...,7353839.story
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  #293  
Old 11-04-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Jon, I agree!.....What must the insurance company be thinking, is there an insurance company?? By the way the new england hurricane of 1938 had a pressure of 941MB, Sandy recorded 946MB.
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  #294  
Old 11-04-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Jon, OOPS you are correct Sandy did have the lowest pressure at 940MB...sorry.
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  #295  
Old 11-04-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
That's the real reason for all the discussion. There is a TON of discussion about this everywhere. What on earth could possibly have been the reason to leave port at the same time sailors up and down the coast were running the other way. It just makes no sense.

This is a pretty damning piece concerning the ship's condition:HMS Bounty sinking to be investigated; victim was 'very concerned' - latimes.com
Jesus Smurphy you find very interesting stuff with new information and then you don't post it?

It seems that the crew knew that the generators and the engines were not in good condition. Christian the woman that lost her life says that clearly.

What is more difficult for me to swallow is to know that the crew and Christian went to sea expecting very nasty weather and sailed away because they trusted the Captain even knowing that the ship was in bad shape. I find that very sad.

Rex Halbeisen, a friend of Christian, said he received an email from her before she died at sea saying she was worried about the storm and the condition of the ship.

"She was very concerned for their safety and was 'praying to God that going to sea was the right decision,' " Halbeisen told the Los Angeles Times.

"You know me, I am not a mechanical person but the generators and engines on this ship are not the most reliable," Christian said, according to email text provided by Halbeisen. "They are always stewing over them. I would hate to be out to sea in a storm an [sic] the engines just quit or we have no power."

He said he turned Christian's email over to the Coast Guard, which said in a statement that it would investigate "every aspect of the accident."


HMS Bounty sinking to be investigated; victim was 'very concerned' - latimes.com

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  #296  
Old 11-04-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wingNwing View Post
It's really simple, Jon. I know that I don't know everything. Therefore, I'm willing to wait.

What's your hurry?
Well, I certainly admire and respect the “evenhandedness” displayed here by yourself – and others – here… (grin)

But, c’mon, none of us here will be part of any official investigation, or be responsible for rendering some ultimate “verdict” regarding this incident… We’re all just sailors BS-ing around this cyber sailor’s bar, speculating about a very public tragedy… I happen to hold some fairly strong opinions about one of my life’s greatest passions, and I’m a sailing forum gasbag to boot, so I’m sorry… But for me to sit back and simply say that I will offer no personal OPINION whatsoever on this tragedy until “the investigation is complete”, well, that ain’t gonna happen… What’s the point of ever posting ANYTHING here, if those are gonna be the ground rules? (grin)

What’s the point of discussing any of these incidents, if that is the case… Any word on when the final results of the “investigation” of the RULE 62 tragedy is gonna be forthcoming, for example?

Look, for me to withhold any personal opinion or judgment on this master’s actions would be to deny giving voice to everything I’ve learned over a lifetime of sailing, and 35 years of delivering yachts … I’ll freely admit I’ve still a great deal to learn, and am willing to be educated on this one… Hence, my call for plausible reasons for a course of action I have repeatedly branded “unfathomable”… Perhaps I'm simply a victim of my paucity of imagination, that’s why I’m asking for some help in conjuring up some way in which this ill-fated voyage made ANY sense whatsoever…

Frankly, I think I’m being somewhat charitable, here… My opinions on the lunacy of the BOUNTY setting sail when she did is based solely on the facts as we currently know them… Namely, the time and place of departure, the forecast at that time, the unsuitability of a vessel like the BOUNTY for riding out or avoiding a hurricane at sea, the course steered directly into the path of such a monster storm, and so on… As stated earlier, I’m willing to discount that damning YouTube interview with that moron in Belfast, and the nonsensical statements made by Trowbridge regarding “chasing hurricanes”, “no such thing as bad weather”, or there being little distinction between standing on deck at dockside, and in the midst of 70’ seas…

Again, I appreciate the apparent unwillingness on the part of yourself and others to render any judgment until “all the facts are in”… But by the same token, I’m comfortable with the opinions I’ve expressed here, and I resent the implication that always arises in these discussions that anyone doing so might be little more than an “armchair sailor”…

Few people alive, for example, likely know more about passagemaking under sail in the Western North Atlantic than a guy like Don Street… Does anyone believe that if he were dragged into this discussion, his response would be of the tepid sort, “Well, I think I’d rather wait until ‘all the facts are known’ about the final voyage of the BOUNTY, before commenting…” ? (grin)
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  #297  
Old 11-04-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

I don't question your (or anyone else's) right to bloviate all you want about this incident. Go ahead, use your "imagination."

My reason for choosing not to get involved is that I have a real life to live, and prefer not to waste my time speculating when I suspect that the facts may render 90% of the speculation moot. I'm willing to wait.

But go ahead and lob your hand grenades all you want. It's hard for a dead man to sue for defamation.

It goes without saying that the captain bears ultimate responsibility for the safety of his crew. And given that two died under his watch, it is clear that he shoulders a significant load of blame, no matter what other facts may emerge. But to me it seems unnecessary to pile on any further, especially given that he has already been subjected to the death penalty for his actions.
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  #298  
Old 11-04-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
My reason for choosing not to get involved is that I have a real life to live, and prefer not to waste my time speculating when I suspect that the facts may render 90% of the speculation moot. I'm willing to wait.
Fair enough... I'll be eagerly anticipating the emergence of the mitigating "facts" that will render "moot" the sailing of a pig like the BOUNTY into the teeth of the largest, most destructive hurricane ever to hit North America, and meeting it directly abeam of the most treacherous lee shore in the Western North Atlantic, and in opposition to one of the most powerful ocean currents on the planet...
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  #299  
Old 11-04-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
Fair enough... I'll be eagerly anticipating the emergence of the mitigating "facts" that will render "moot" the sailing of a pig like the BOUNTY into the teeth of the largest, most destructive hurricane ever to hit North America, and meeting it directly abeam of the most treacherous lee shore in the Western North Atlantic, and in opposition to one of the most powerful ocean currents on the planet...
Oh, for crying out loud I promised I would not do this.

Suppose that the investigation reveals that the malfunction had absolutely nothing to do with the weather...that the lee shore had no effect on the outcome...that the vessel would have sunk anyway without a hurricane to the southeast? Based on the captain's statements, this ship had seen worse than 18 ft. seas and 40 knot winds before.

I am not denying the presence of the weather, and the questionable judgement to head out. But it is possible that the facts could show that the weather was not a factor in the root cause, and then much of the speculation about it becomes moot. Had he stayed in for the hurricane, nobody would have died on that day. But what if the nature of the malfunction was something that would have happened on his NEXT trip out, and would have led to the same fatal result? Then the hurricane is moot, and people still would have died. It's purely speculation, but two can play that game.
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  #300  
Old 11-05-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Except a helicopter rescue in calm weather is a *little* different than one on the edge of a hurricane.
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