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  #331  
Old 11-05-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Can anyone post an AIS plott of what ships would have been in the Eastern Atlantic at the time of the Bounty sinking?

I understand Bounty was in communication with another vessel that they were going to pass.

Did a search but came up with nothing.

this gives live shots, pretty cool:
http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/def...spx?level0=100

Regards

Last edited by casey1999; 11-05-2012 at 06:54 PM.
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  #332  
Old 11-05-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Casey,

I have that app on the IPAD as well as android phone. Is a great help in figuring out anchored vessels as well as names of vessels to hail.

We also have ais module on our Raymarine system as well as the VHF which of course helps identify us as well
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  #333  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Casey,

I have that app on the IPAD as well as android phone. Is a great help in figuring out anchored vessels as well as names of vessels to hail.

We also have ais module on our Raymarine system as well as the VHF which of course helps identify us as well
Was wondering if a "snap shot" is available at the time of sinking of the Bounty?
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  #334  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Very interesting:
http://www.holdhmsbountyaccountable.org/
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  #335  
Old 11-05-2012
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Armchair sailor's opinion

Some more information:

The opinion of another armchair sailor (now with 77), that was for 16 years the Bounty Captain:

Hugh Boyd, 77, a former Bounty captain for 16 years, echoed Carey in wondering why Walbridge took the ship out as a hurricane approached.

"I'm so sorry he went out in this weather to risk the lives of him and his crew," Boyd said. "It was very risky business."


Another armchair sailor and former Captain of the tall ship Virginia:

Captain Hank Moseley:

Moseley said many people questioned the decision to go to sea with the storm looming."All of us watched through social media that the ship had departed, and many of us were surprised that they left when they did and followed the route that they did. If the decision were mine to make, I wouldn't have made that passage."

Another armchair sailor, the Captain of the tall ship Picton Castle:

The captain of the Picton Castle says he can’t understand why the Bounty was at sea Monday when a massive hurricane was forecast to hit.

Indeed, Dan Moreland postponed leaving Lunenburg more than a week ago precisely because of hurricane Sandy.

“It was an easy decision to make,” he said. “It’s black and white, there are no nuances with this. It’s a huge system and that made the decision very simple.”

Moreland said he has known Robin Walbridge, the longtime captain of the Bounty, for years and he is an experienced seaman, but Moreland said he was shocked that Walbridge decided to sail, given the forecast.

“Yes, I have to say yes, I can’t say anything else. When I first heard the Bounty was out there, I thought, ‘You’ve got to be kidding.’ ”

Moreland said there was very good information on the storm well in advance.

“I don’t understand this one at all,” he said. “This is a huge system, there is no way of avoiding this, there’s no dodging and weaving around it.”

Moreland has captained the Picton Castle on five circumnavigations, and the tall ship has sailed more than 400,000 kilometres under his command without incident.

Moreland had planned to set sail in the Picton Castle over a week ago but delayed the voyage because of the impending hurricane.

“I had no interest in going because of this storm,” clearly a large system that would have extensive impact, he said.

He postponed the departure until last Wednesday, and then, given the latest weather information, decided to stay put until the storm passed....

Moreland expects the Bounty’s sinking to come under intense scrutiny.

“When you lose a ship, there are some pretty obvious questions out of this. It’s pretty horrible, and the big question is, the decision to go.”


Another armchair sailor but one that knows one or two things about the Bounty, the former president of the Society of Preservation of the HMS Bounty, Cathy Carey :

she wondered why Walbridge was on the ocean with all the warnings about the looming superstorm. "He knew the storm was coming, for a couple of weeks. He had plenty of time to know," she said. "He shouldn't have gone out there...

And the saddest and oddest thing is that this was not a first time for the Bounty (with the same Captain). Some years ago almost sunk exactly by the same reasons it sank now:


This was not the first time the Bounty was in peril. In 1998, several newspapers reported the ship almost sank after three of its bilge pumps failed.

Investigators said the ship started taking on water when a storm banged the ship around, loosening the caulking between the planks and allowing water to seep in. The Coast Guard responded and delivered pumps to the troubled vessel.




2nd day of searching for ship's captain is unsuccessful | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

http://abcnews.go.com/US/hurricane-s...2#.UJhRF29mKSo

Picton Castle captain questions Bounty being at sea during storm | The Chronicle Herald
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  #336  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Hummm I wonder what you want to suggest with this. I know that they were trying to unsuccessfully sell the boat for several years but..... its is hard to believe even in the possibility of a Captain to risk the lives of others on account of insurance claims

Or do you mean that the Captain was just crazy and was just doing what he said he likes to do: Chasing Hurricanes?

Anyway it is obviously that the ship was there because the Captain wanted, not by accident in a sense that he was not caught inadvertently by that storm. He could have stayed in Port, several of them. Is this what you mean when you say "NOT BY ACCIDENT"?

Regards

Paulo
Sorry, probably a poor choice of words, I'm not trying to infer anything by my choice of that word. I simply meant that the BOUNTY was put into her position deliberately, and I can't imagine anyone in their wildest imagination might think that sailing directly into a hurricane would be a likely means to obtain a satisfactory insurance settlement...

When I first learned of this story, I had assumed the BOUNTY was on a southbound passage from Nova Scotia, that had likely commenced far before forecasters had settled on the projected track of Sandy... Even then, the initial reports had claimed they had sailed due east in and effort to "skirt" the massive storm...

But when it was learned they had departed New London on Thursday, and upon clearing Montauk had laid a course directly into the storm's projected track, it became clear it was no "accident" that placed them off Hatteras when Sandy reached that latitude... There was no accident in the form of a rig or steering failure that disabled them, making it impossible for them to escape, or divert to the Chesapeake Entrance... The track of their voyage shows them making relatively steady, unwavering progress towards the point of her abandonment, that's all I meant by saying it was no accident, or unforeseen problem/failure that put them there...
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  #337  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
I think a professional examination will say it was a good strategy, but it didn’t take into account a complete and utter loss of power.”
Seems to me, that for a "professional examination" to come to such a conclusion, one would have to largely disregard the fact that the BOUNTY was a Sailing vessel...

Any military commander understands no battle plan is likely to survive the initial contact with the enemy... Similarly, one of the most elemental definitions of seamanship - particularly with heavy weather - IMHO, is the continuous thought given to the question "What do I do IF such and such happens?"

Taking a sailing vessel dependent upon diesel propulsion to make headway, or generators to remain afloat, into the path of a hurricane... yeah, that's a great plan, alright...

Until it isn't...
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  #338  
Old 11-05-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Some other places has talked about whether there might have been an issue with removing the original lead ballast pigs and replacing them with a steel keel shoe.

One other issue that has been discussed elsewhere is communications.
Rather surprisingly, I didn't see anything about EPIRBs or PLBs, for example, in the winlink.org article:

http://www.winlink.org/node/662

On Monday morning, October 29, the tall ship HMS Bounty was in the embrace of Hurricane Sandy 90 miles off Hatteras, NC and taking on water. Doug Faunt, N6TQS, survivor and ship's electrician, told the ARRL that the Bounty crew tried various methods to call for help, including a satellite phone, “... we got nothing when tried calling out on HF. We tried calling the Maritime Mobile Net, but nothing was out there. We had Winlink on the ship that we used for e-mail and accessing the Internet to post to blogs and to Facebook, and we finally found an e-mail address for the Coast Guard. As a last-ditch effort, we used Winlink to e-mail the Coast Guard for help.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Also:
Bounty crew - Good Morning America 007:30 tomorrow.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgscpat View Post
...
On Monday morning, October 29, the tall ship HMS Bounty was in the embrace of Hurricane Sandy 90 miles off Hatteras, NC and taking on water. Doug Faunt, N6TQS, survivor and ship's electrician, told the ARRL that the Bounty crew tried various methods to call for help, including a satellite phone, “... we got nothing when tried calling out on HF. We tried calling the Maritime Mobile Net, but nothing was out there. We had Winlink on the ship that we used for e-mail and accessing the Internet to post to blogs and to Facebook, and we finally found an e-mail address for the Coast Guard. As a last-ditch effort, we used Winlink to e-mail the Coast Guard for help.
"We had Winlink on the ship that we used for e-mail and accessing the Internet to post to blogs and to Facebook"

Internet is great but hardly the best way to call a SAR

I found another armchair sailor that says the Bounty should have not sailed out of New London, the Captain of the Pride of Baltimore:

Jan Miles, longtime captain of the tall ship Pride of Baltimore II, said going to sea was not a decision he would have made.

"It wasn't like it was a surprise there was a hurricane," he said

"These things are too big for a slow boat to outmaneuver," he said. "Had I been asked what I thought Capt. Walbridge would have done in this instance, it wouldn't have been this."


http://hamptonroads.com/2012/10/tall...essel-nc-coast

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 11-05-2012 at 10:05 PM.
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