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  #441  
Old 11-07-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Ok peoples let me be quite plain ....

This thread is right on the knifes edge of being simply closed and deleted from view.

The language and accusations would be a worry in Off Topic. In General Discussion they are way out of line.

Come on peoples, keep it civil.
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  #442  
Old 11-07-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
I actually knew that. Was only hoping to guide Paolo to see he doesn't need to pound so hard to make a point many of us agree with.
Oh, ok. Sorry about that.
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  #443  
Old 11-07-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve77 View Post
We have the benefit of hindsight to know what was and what wasn't a secure port.
S77, please don't misunderstand the use of the term "secure port". Hindsight has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Let me explain: The Harbourmaster of every port used by commercial shipping will have guidelines written down in their Manual. If you've never seen one before, here's a link to one over here chosen simply because it's a small, relatively secure port and the Manual is in one place and easy to read.

In contrast, here are the "Emergency Procedures" for the Port of Townsville - a largish, busy, un-protected shipping port subject to Cyclone activity at various times of the year. Please note the following statement under Condition Yellow: "Ship’s crew to full complement and prepare to put to sea".

Does that make sense now?? Good! Let's move on..
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Last edited by Classic30; 11-07-2012 at 08:25 PM.
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  #444  
Old 11-07-2012
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Lies

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post


Apart the fact that you have attributed to me statements that I had not made, and that is unacceptable in any civilized country or forum, it seems that all disagreement in what regards our opinions are due to what you say above. Well, it is difficult to understand that post because you quote me but then what comes behind is also said be me (and it seems that it is said by you), so to put it clear:

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post

Quote Paulo:

take into consideration that I am not posting mainly my personal opinion but mostly the opinions of professional sailors that based what I think about this unfortunate tragic accident.
Look at what I have posted as a small contribute and I strongly believe they know a lot more than us.


chef2sail: Lie

...
I guess this says all. I have repeatedly said that I do not consider my one personal opinion neither the opinion of any amateur sailor as valid, in what consider this matter, as valid as the ones of Captains of tall ships or professional sailors.

I also have said that my opinions in this thread has as base the opinions expressed by those professionals and that's why I extensively quoted them.

And I mean all opinions because I did not have found any of them saying that the Bounty should not have stayed in Port or that the Bounty's Captain had done the right thing sailing to an hurricane, quite the opposite.

Of course an amateur sailor may value his own opinion above the opinion of Captains of tall ships an professional sailors, that does not mean necessarily that he is wrong, only that he considers himself highly knowledgeable, more than tall ship Captains and professional sailors. It seems to be this the case with Dave. Nothing wrong with that, anyone is entitle to have his opinion.

Anyway it is not a lie. A lie is something that someone knows to be untrue and that is said with the intention of deceiving. Obviously it is not the case and even saying that it is not true is just a matter of opinion, not a fact and never a lie.

...

Last edited by PCP; 11-07-2012 at 09:52 PM.
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  #445  
Old 11-07-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
S77, please don't misunderstand the use of the term "secure port". Hindsight has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Let me explain: The Harbourmaster of every port used by commercial shipping will have guidelines written down in their Manual. If you've never seen one before, here's a link to one over here chosen simply because it's a small, relatively secure port and the Manual is in one place and easy to read.

In contrast, here are the "Emergency Procedures" for the Port of Townsville - a largish, busy, un-protected shipping port subject to Cyclone activity at various times of the year. Please note the following statement under Condition yellow: "Shipís crew to full complement and prepare to put to sea".

Does that make sense now?? Good! Let's move on..
Hartley, thanks and yes, that makes sense. I didn't realize what you meant by the term. Interesting reading, actually.
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  #446  
Old 11-07-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve77 View Post
Hartley, thanks and yes, that makes sense. I didn't realize what you meant by the term. Interesting reading, actually.
Good-o.. Homework for tonight is to read the Emergency Procedures for the port the HMS Bounty left from.
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  #447  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
.. Homework for tonight is to read the Emergency Procedures for the port the HMS Bounty left from.

In the meantime, let's move on..
I would be very interested in that, if you can find it.

Maybe here is a bit different, a Port (a commercial one) is by definition safe except in what regards entering or going out of Port. When there is really bad weather in our coast sometimes only two or three Ports remain open. That means that Ships or boats cannot come in or out from a closed Port.

Regards

Paulo
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  #448  
Old 11-07-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I would be very interested in that, if you can find it.

Maybe here is a bit different, a Port (a commercial one) is by definition safe except in what regards entering or going out of Port. When there is really bad weather in our coast sometimes only two or three Ports remain open. That means that Ships or boats cannot come in or out from a closed Port.

Regards

Paulo
Here in Hawaii when we have a Tsunami warning, during and after the time of the expected first wave of the Tsunami, the Coast Gurard will close all ports. This means you cannot enter or leave the port. The CG usually waits to first light when they perform port inspections before the port is "opened". What they are looking for is strong tidal currents and elevation changes, and debris in the water that could effect navigation.

Neither the CG nor the harbor master will force people out of a port either before, during, or after a Tsunami. Even a closed port. A closed put is basically a port "lock down".
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  #449  
Old 11-07-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I would be very interested in that, if you can find it.
It'll take some digging, but I'm sure you'll find it on-line somewhere - that's how Port Corporations operate these days - and Emergency Procedures are mandatory. I already knew where to find the examples I posted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Maybe here is a bit different, a Port (a commercial one) is by definition safe except in what regards entering or going out of Port. When there is really bad weather in our coast sometimes only two or three Ports remain open. That means that Ships or boats cannot come in or out from a closed Port.
In areas of the world not likely to be subject to "cyclonic activity", I can understand that - the danger is only the period while entering and leaving.

Ports near where I used to live would get hammered every year or so by cyclones, hence the requirement for all shipping to leave port before it's closed is standard safety procedure - for all the reasons I mentioned earlier in this thread.
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  #450  
Old 11-07-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
Good-o.. Homework for tonight is to read the Emergency Procedures for the port the HMS Bounty left from.
There's not going to be a quiz, is there?
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