HMS Bounty in trouble... - Page 46 - SailNet Community

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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Vessels Lost, Missing, or in Danger
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  #451  
Old 11-07-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve77 View Post
There's not going to be a quiz, is there?
Bwahahahaha!!

I'm just too darn lazy to go look for it myself.. and anyways don't know that part of the world as well as y'all. ..but if you did happen to find it it might shed some light on the "Forced Exit" hypothesis (if it was Port policy) or say nothing much at all (if it wasn't).
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  #452  
Old 11-08-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Paulo--- I have been a silent reader for awhile now. I am enjoying all of your conversations. I am a volunteer with the Philadelphia Ship Preservation Guild that now owns the Tall Ship Gazela. I just sailed on her for the first time this past summer from her Home Port in Philadelphia, PA to Newport, RI for a tall ship festival. We do not chase hurricanes and have a very well established sailing guideline. She will NOT sail in certain conditions or if those conditions may be in her path. We will hold at the dock until those conditions are clear even if on a schedule. The mission statement of the guild is to not only pass on the old sailing traditions, but also the old ways of maintaining a wooden ship. We also want to be able to pass her along to future generations, so that they can learn and enjoy her too. She is irreplaceable, as you would know.

I have seen the Bounty, but I was never on her. I only met two crew members once as I was asked to give a below deck tour of Gazela. The gossip is that she had maintence issues. Yes, I did state gossip for all those that may be critical of passing information on unsubtaniated. GOSSIP I SAY !!!!!!!!

I could not post any links because I am new, but I did read an article that contains the following:

The US Navy North Atlantic Sub Base is in New London/Groton, CT.
The five submarines that were in port remained there to ride out the storm. The US Coast Guards Training Ship-- the Barque Eagle was also there and remained in port. She is a steel hulled training ship for the Coast Guard, but she is a fully rigged three masted sailng ship carrying five yards on her main mast.
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  #453  
Old 11-08-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

YukonJack,

You're a voice of reason that well articulates what many of us think was very wrong with Bounty's decision making. Unfortunately, it is abundantly clear that Bounty had a culture of risk taking, evidenced by both the Capt and the crew's statements, even if exaggerated. Most professional skippers that I know, including a couple of Admirals, are more likely to brag about how squared away they are than their exploits.
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  #454  
Old 11-08-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Smurph, you are talking about Marinas. Bounty was in a natural big port, new London, this one:



To give you an Idea of the scale on the left there are a marina (small in the picture).

Even if the Captain considered safer to be out of the dock he had plenty of space to anchor.

Regarding being forced out of the dock I will point out that the Picton Castle, also a tall ship was there and remained there. His captain was one of the Captains that criticized openly and harshly the choice of Bounty's Captain of not staying in Port and chose to sail a Hurricane.

I will also pointed out that the Picton Castle, that stayed on the same port from where the Bounty leaved, did not sustain any damage with the Hurricane.

Regards

Paulo
Yes, I've been in New London plenty of times. I was suggesting that if he could not stay there for some reason, that there was actually a place close by with a flood gate. It just makes it a real mystery as to why he sailed out into the storm. New London is a nuclear sub port and is loaded with pleasure boats--very crowded. I am thinking maybe he was asked to leave. New Bedford is more of a commercial spot.
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  #455  
Old 11-08-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by YukonJack View Post
Paulo--- I have been a silent reader for awhile now. I am enjoying all of your conversations. I am a volunteer with the Philadelphia Ship Preservation Guild that now owns the Tall Ship Gazela. I just sailed on her for the first time this past summer from her Home Port in Philadelphia, PA to Newport, RI for a tall ship festival. We do not chase hurricanes and have a very well established sailing guideline. She will NOT sail in certain conditions or if those conditions may be in her path. We will hold at the dock until those conditions are clear even if on a schedule. The mission statement of the guild is to not only pass on the old sailing traditions, but also the old ways of maintaining a wooden ship. We also want to be able to pass her along to future generations, so that they can learn and enjoy her too. She is irreplaceable, as you would know.

I have seen the Bounty, but I was never on her. I only met two crew members once as I was asked to give a below deck tour of Gazela. The gossip is that she had maintence issues. Yes, I did state gossip for all those that may be critical of passing information on unsubtaniated. GOSSIP I SAY !!!!!!!!

I could not post any links because I am new, but I did read an article that contains the following:

The US Navy North Atlantic Sub Base is in New London/Groton, CT.
The five submarines that were in port remained there to ride out the storm. The US Coast Guards Training Ship-- the Barque Eagle was also there and remained in port. She is a steel hulled training ship for the Coast Guard, but she is a fully rigged three masted sailng ship carrying five yards on her main mast.
Thanks for posting. I love traditional boats and I have owned and recovered a small one. Take good care of Gazela, that's a very nice ship.

When I was a kid I, as many Lisbon inhabitants, went every year to the river banks to say goodbye to the white fleet and Gazela was one of the ships sailing out with the fleet.

"The barquentine Gazela Primeiro (meaning Gazelle the First in Portuguese) was built in the shipyard of J. M. Mendes in Setúbal, Portugal in 1901. At that time the Portuguese fisheries authorities had a regulation prohibiting the construction of new vessels for the Grand Banks cod fishery.

Gazela was built to carry fishermen to the Grand Banks of Newfoundland. Every spring she would leave Lisbon, laden with as many as 35 dories stacked on deck like drinking cups, a crew of 40 men (35 fishermen/sailors, two cooks, two mates and the captain), and a couple of apprentices. Her cargo hold would be full of salt as ballast. The salt would be used for the fish that were caught (cod, flounder, halibut, haddock and perch), preserving them for the long trip home. The Gazela could stow upwards of 350 tons of salted fish in her holds.

Gazela was engine-less until 1938, when a Mannheim-Benz diesel engine was installed. With the depletion of cod on the Grand Banks, vessels were being forced to fish the Davis Strait, between Greenland and Newfoundland. The contrary winds and frequent icebergs in this area made life difficult for ships without engines. To accommodate the propeller, a new rudder post was installed and her counter was extended approximately 10–12 feet, giving her a long overhanging transom.

After a remarkably long commercial career, Gazela's last voyage to the Banks as a commercial fishing ship was made in 1969."


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  #456  
Old 11-08-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
Yes, I've been in New London plenty of times. I was suggesting that if he could not stay there for some reason, that there was actually a place close by with a flood gate. It just makes it a real mystery as to why he sailed out into the storm. New London is a nuclear sub port and is loaded with pleasure boats--very crowded. I am thinking maybe he was asked to leave. New Bedford is more of a commercial spot.
If he was asked to leave, we (and all the others) wound be talking about the port authorities responsibilities (there is a Port Captain in US?) and not about Bounty's Captain. That would have bean an huge scandal and I if that had happened, Bounty owner and their organization would have come forward saying not that it was safer to face an hurricane than to stay in port, but saying that they were forced to leave port and had to face an hurricane. That is an huge, huge difference.

We would wait for Hartley investigation about that but I think that the chances for that to have happened are very near 0.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 11-08-2012 at 09:54 AM.
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  #457  
Old 11-08-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve77
We have the benefit of hindsight to know what was and what wasn't a secure port. When the Bounty left New London, CT on Thursday 10/25 the storm was near Cuba. There was no way to know where it would make landfall, predictions were anywhere from NC to southern Maine.
You are right about the forecast, but doesn't that make is all the more dangerous? No way to know you can avoid it.
Precisely, that is what makes the decision to sail south even harder to fathom, especially in such a slow vessel incapable of the ability to "dodge" such a vast system...

On Thrusday, the one thing that all forecast models appeared to be in agreement, was that Sandy would track just east of Hatteras... The European model had the hard left turn north of Hatteras nailed at that point, but some models still showed a turn to the NE and staying offshore... But, even if he were banking on those being the right ones, he was STILL gonna encounter Sandy roughly abeam of Hatteras, no matter which forecast model he was banking on...

The Port of Albany sure would have been a good spot to head for during this one, putting a mountain range in between you and the likely path of a hurricane is generally a pretty good idea... And if he was determined to vacate New London on thursday, he still would have had time to put such a plan into effect...
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  #458  
Old 11-08-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
Bwahahahaha!!

I'm just too darn lazy to go look for it myself.. and anyways don't know that part of the world as well as y'all. ..but if you did happen to find it it might shed some light on the "Forced Exit" hypothesis (if it was Port policy) or say nothing much at all (if it wasn't).
I poked around here: CHMA Current News of Interest

but didn't find anything regarding emergency conditions. As others have mentioned, there is a lot going on around New London/Groton. The submarine base, USCG Academy, USCG station. I couldn't find any link for the New London Harbormaster though, other than contact information.
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  #459  
Old 11-08-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

This was posted in another thread here on SN by a naval design archetect of tall ships

Interesting reading


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  #460  
Old 11-08-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Looks like we could be in this for a while, but looks like the CG will do a thorough investigation:

Coast Guard to investigate sinking of HMS Bounty replica - Yahoo! News
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