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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Vessels Lost, Missing, or in Danger
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  #491  
Old 11-08-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Southwest was clearly the one he was going for, based on the satellite tracking of the ship's position. I do believe that would be to get the wind behind him on that trip.
Agreed. SW. Trying to make sense of this course in the context of the weather forecasts available (once they were already committed and out at sea), the first time that the Advisories made any mention that the track for the storm might eventually turn west of north was in the "48 hr Outlook" section of the 5pm advisory on Sat. 27th. at which time the actual movement of the storm was still NE:

500 PM EDT SAT OCT 27 2012

SUMMARY OF 500 PM EDT...2100 UTC...INFORMATION
----------------------------------------------
LOCATION...30.2N 75.2W
ABOUT 335 MI...540 KM ESE OF CHARLESTON SOUTH CAROLINA
ABOUT 345 MI...555 KM S OF CAPE HATTERAS NORTH CAROLINA
MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS...75 MPH...120 KM/H
PRESENT MOVEMENT...NE OR 35 DEGREES AT 13 MPH...20 KM/H
MINIMUM CENTRAL PRESSURE...961 MB...28.38 INCHES...

SANDY IS MOVING
TOWARD THE NORTHEAST NEAR 13 MPH...20 KM/H...AND THIS GENERAL MOTION
IS FORECAST TO CONTINUE THROUGH SUNDAY. A TURN TOWARD THE NORTH IS
FORECAST SUNDAY NIGHT...FOLLOWED BY A TURN TOWARD THE NORTH-
NORTHWEST
ON MONDAY. ON THE FORECAST TRACK THE CENTER OF SANDY
WILL MOVE PARALLEL TO THE SOUTHEAST COAST OF THE UNITED STATES
THROUGH THE WEEKEND...AND APPROACH THE COAST OF THE MID-ATLANTIC
STATES LATE MONDAY.

If the Bounty's forecasts while offshore were limited to these text advisories, that would be the first time they would have had a definitive prediction that the storm would track anywhere other than NE and later N. By then the decision to head SW to try to dodge AHEAD of the storm and make the SW quadrant had already been made, and they were committed to that course of action.

The first Advisory to mention that the actual movement of the storm had changed from NE to North was released at 02:00am on Monday 29th, by which time the storm had already wreaked its havoc on the vessel, and spat it out in its south western quadrant.
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  #492  
Old 11-08-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
Does not sound like Dock Master forced him out:
Debate rages about Bounty captain's decision to set sail | The Chronicle Herald

“He said he wanted to get to the southeast quadrant and ride the storm out,” said New London Dockmaster Barbara Neff. No one raised objections.
Yes, I had read that elsewhere. The only problem with that quote is that the reporter asked the wrong person. The Port of New London is run by the State of Connecticut, and the Harbormaster is a man named David Crocker. Barbara Neff has a 6 month position with the City of New London, basically marketing some city-owned moorings, compensation $1,500/month.

Not making an arguement, I just wanted to point out how misleading even mainstream media quotes can be.
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  #493  
Old 11-08-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewgyver View Post
Yes, I had read that elsewhere. The only problem with that quote is that the reporter asked the wrong person. The Port of New London is run by the State of Connecticut, and the Harbormaster is a man named David Crocker. Barbara Neff has a 6 month position with the City of New London, basically marketing some city-owned moorings, compensation $1,500/month.

Not making an arguement, I just wanted to point out how misleading even mainstream media quotes can be.
I agree, media is probably wrong at least 25% of the time. The fact (I'll use that term losely) is that it does not seem anyone was asking, telling, ordering, or sugesting that the Bounty go to sea and to leave the harbor or dock.
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  #494  
Old 11-08-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewgyver View Post
If you don't want people attributing things to you that you didn't actually say, then make your posts a little more readable. All of this color changing, bold, font size change, etc, makes it difficult to differentiate between what you are saying and what you are re-posting (without the use of any quotation notation).

Jesus you could have asked!!!! What a mess and that is so simple: When I quote somebody from this forum I generally use the quote system, when I quote somebody out of this forum, from other forum or from an article I use color. If on an article there are several people talking, to make clearer each opinion, I use different colors. Besides using color to differentiate clearly what is quoted I always put the sources on the bottom.

When it is my opinion I use always black and only what is in black are my opinions or statements. I have more than 5000 posts on this forum and I always have used this system that is clear and helps to differentiate what I say from what I quote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewgyver View Post

Quoted PCP by Brewgyver]"We know also that the boat had been already in a similar situation in a storm, I mean making water with the generators out of service, without other type of auxiliary pumps"

You have re-posted rumors to that effect, with no source cited.
You could and should be more careful before saying nonsense about me. Here is the post were I originally quoted the source that said that, of course in color, as usual ( pg 34, post 335):

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
Some more information:……..

And the saddest and oddest thing is that this was not a first time for the Bounty (with the same Captain). Some years ago almost sunk exactly by the same reasons it sank now:


This was not the first time the Bounty was in peril. In 1998, several newspapers reported the ship almost sank after three of its bilge pumps failed.

Investigators said the ship started taking on water when a storm banged the ship around, loosening the caulking between the planks and allowing water to seep in. The Coast Guard responded and delivered pumps to the troubled vessel.


2nd day of searching for ship's captain is unsuccessful | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewgyver View Post
This is what you said:
You plainly labeled it as a fact, so how is that NOT saying you knew what happened?
I have already said to you what we know:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
I never said I knew what happened. only said that in my opinion and in the opinion of professional sailors (that I quoted) and from professional tall ship captains(that I quoted too) the captain should not have leaved port and went to a hurricane pass. Of course this is an opinion but I weight in a completely different weight my opinions or any other from amateur sailors compared with the opinions of tall ship Captains or professional sailors.

I did not certainly attributed false statements to nobody.

Regarding the Bounty having only a generator working that information was given to gCaptain sailor forum (professional sailors) by someone from the Bounty, not necessarily the crew. I posted with good faith but I admit that we don't know if that was true or not, even if I cannot see any reason to lie. The only thing we know is that in the opinion of the dead crew member they were not reliable and the crew were constantly messing around with them.

We now also that the boat sunk because it had the generators out of order and given the absence of diesel powered generators was not able to take out the water that the boat was making.

We know also that the boat had been already in a similar situation in a storm, I mean making water with the generators out of service, without other type of auxiliary pups and did not sunk because the CG was able to deliver some portable diesel water that were able to compensate the water ingress.
Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 11-08-2012 at 08:07 PM.
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  #495  
Old 11-08-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewgyver View Post
Yes, I had read that elsewhere. The only problem with that quote is that the reporter asked the wrong person. The Port of New London is run by the State of Connecticut, and the Harbormaster is a man named David Crocker. Barbara Neff has a 6 month position with the City of New London, basically marketing some city-owned moorings, compensation $1,500/month.

Not making an arguement, I just wanted to point out how misleading even mainstream media quotes can be.
Hmm.. If the media snoops can't get it right, that's one horribly-bureaucratic port you have there! Sounds like we all best wait for the outcome of the official investigation.

I imagine it make for very interesting reading.
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  #496  
Old 11-08-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Sal,

I guess I'm just trying to find some explanation how they came to the decision on the 27th to change course from their most easterly position since sailing south, to head SW across the eventual path of the storm.
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  #497  
Old 11-08-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
The post I quoted was all from Bonnie Ember.
Could you elaborate?
Sorry, I was in part asking who Bonnie Ember is, and her connection with this. If it was mentioned earlier, I apologize, I forgot it, been several days catching as catch can on this thread.
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  #498  
Old 11-08-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
Well when the coast guard left the scene the ships mast were still above the water, so the ship had not completely sunk. For all we know the ship could still be floating, unless you want to assume it did sink after the CG left the scene.
Casey, I don't have the link at hand but I did read today that the CG had returned to look for the ship but couldn't find it. The report indicated that she sunk. For whatever that's worth.

Edit: here is the link-

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/02/us-storm-sandy-bounty-idUSBRE8A11ET20121102

Last edited by steve77; 11-08-2012 at 08:40 PM.
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  #499  
Old 11-08-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brewgyver View Post
Sorry, I was in part asking who Bonnie Ember is, and her connection with this. If it was mentioned earlier, I apologize, I forgot it, been several days catching as catch can on this thread.
Bonnie Ember posted a note in the forum under the news paper article, I have no idea what, if any connection she may have to Bounty. I just thought her opinion was interesting, even if some information may not be completely correct. It is kind of mysterious how the Bounty goes down with a direct decendent of the leader of the mutiny on the original ship.
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  #500  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve77 View Post
Casey, I don't have the link at hand but I did read today that the CG had returned to look for the ship but couldn't find it. The report indicated that she sunk. For whatever that's worth.
Probably has sunk, but the Capt (as far as I know) was wearing a survial suit, should still be floating (I'll try not to get too morbid here), and CG cannot find him. It is a big ocean out there.
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