HMS Bounty in trouble... - Page 53 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Vessels Lost, Missing, or in Danger
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree718Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #521  
Old 11-09-2012
JulieMor's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 853
Thanks: 47
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 3
JulieMor is on a distinguished road
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Anyway, this is an issue that I think got very confused due to the SW/SE confusion. Its clear from their path that they weren't making any serious effort to get East of the storm, but some initially said they were. It seems most likely that they were just heading south until they got a better idea of where they needed to be to catch the Western side. As it turned out, the storm headed West, so they needed to make the most dramatic adjustment. That's my theory.
I'm not sure how far north the storm had progressed when the ship sank, but I was thinking they were either northwest of the eye or directly west of it. If the captain wanted to get to the southeast quadrant, wouldn't it make sense he would have sailed along the western edge, then turned east after he had reached the southern edge of the storm? With the rotation of the storm and the apparent fact the ship sailed very poorly into the wind, that would seem the most logical route. So if he really was heading for the southeast quadrant, he couldn't have made that easterly heading until after the eye had passed to the north.

Of course, the extreme adrenaline junkie would have sailed right into the eye and popped back out the other side.

But really, if he wanted to get a "good ride" out of the storm AND reach his destination ASAP, he would have stayed to the west of the storm and hit that southwest quadrant.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #522  
Old 11-09-2012
chef2sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,828
Thanks: 28
Thanked 53 Times in 49 Posts
Rep Power: 7
chef2sail will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

A lot of this depends on the sea state in that area off of Hatterass. Not only the shoals, but the Gulf Stream wind direction relative to it may have forced his hand as to direction he could sail. It was interesting to read about the righting moment and angle of heel which the boat could not recover from with relation to the angle of the sails and thie settings. Managing these ships and I am no expert at all so I post that disclaimer is somehwat different from sailing our sloops, Ketches.

Close hauled isnt a term they apparently can use.

I dont know enough to comment on this and am willing to admit it and dont hink it wise to speculate. which angle he should have attacked this storm because I dont know how to sail this type of ship, I dont know the specific conditions he was encountering other than lots of wind and large seas ( I dont know the sea state) and the other factors which would casuse him to sail a particular course ( water in the boat etc.)

As the facts come out it will present more and more of a picture as to the actual events which happened from the Bountys perspective. This will be helpful and maybe an educational moment for us and others when this is found out.

This does not abbrogate his responsibility for leaving knowing there was the oncomming storm.



Dave
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #523  
Old 11-09-2012
mistermizu's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 18
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rep Power: 0
mistermizu is on a distinguished road
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Some data which might explain the vessels abrupt change of course from S to SW on the 27th: this shows that they only changed course towards the SW after they were clear of the Gulf Stream. It looks likely that they actually encountered the worst of the storm while out of the stream.
Attached Thumbnails
HMS Bounty in trouble...-gulf-stream-26-10-12-bounty-sandy-track.jpg  
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #524  
Old 11-09-2012
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,160
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

One of the crew members said that they have little control. This was a sailboat with auxiliary engines and I don't think they were sailing. I guess that when things got really bad they had no choice except to do what the sea allowed them to do and they took the easiest course regarding the sea.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #525  
Old 11-09-2012
chef2sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,828
Thanks: 28
Thanked 53 Times in 49 Posts
Rep Power: 7
chef2sail will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
One of the crew members said that they have little control. This was a sailboat with auxiliary engines and I don't think they were sailing.
How do you know they weren't sailing?

Quote:
I guess that when things got really bad they had no choice except to do what the sea allowed them to do and they took the easiest course regarding the sea.P
Assumption based without facts are dangerous
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #526  
Old 11-10-2012
Large Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,000
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 8
mdbee is on a distinguished road
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post

Assumption based without facts are dangerous

HEY! This is the Internet!
skygazer likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #527  
Old 11-10-2012
smurphny's Avatar
Over Hill Sailing Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Adirondacks NY
Posts: 2,687
Thanks: 49
Thanked 56 Times in 54 Posts
Rep Power: 6
smurphny is on a distinguished road
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
A lot of this depends on the sea state in that area off of Hatterass. Not only the shoals, but the Gulf Stream wind direction relative to it may have forced his hand as to direction he could sail. It was interesting to read about the righting moment and angle of heel which the boat could not recover from with relation to the angle of the sails and thie settings. Managing these ships and I am no expert at all so I post that disclaimer is somehwat different from sailing our sloops, Ketches.

Close hauled isnt a term they apparently can use.

I dont know enough to comment on this and am willing to admit it and dont hink it wise to speculate. which angle he should have attacked this storm because I dont know how to sail this type of ship, I dont know the specific conditions he was encountering other than lots of wind and large seas ( I dont know the sea state) and the other factors which would casuse him to sail a particular course ( water in the boat etc.)

As the facts come out it will present more and more of a picture as to the actual events which happened from the Bountys perspective. This will be helpful and maybe an educational moment for us and others when this is found out.

This does not abbrogate his responsibility for leaving knowing there was the oncomming storm.



Dave

From what I have read, the square riggers are only able to point up about 20 degrees, not 20 degrees off the wind, 20 degrees off a beam reach. They also make a tremendous amount of leeway. This would drastically limit his options for setting a course under sail only.
__________________
Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #528  
Old 11-10-2012
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,160
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
How do you know they weren't sailing?
...
Assumption based without facts are dangerous
Jesus Dave, educated guesses is what we can do. I said "probably they were not sailing". No one refereed to that specifically, but we knew they had a very reduced crew for the needs of the boat, namely sailing and we knew they had considered the loss of engines as one of the determinant causes of the loss of the boat. If they were sailing that would not be a big deal since the energy for pumps come from generators.

One of the science instruments are educated assumptions (hypothesis) that later are tested to see if they prove right or wrong.

I am not saying that it was like that I am saying that a possible cause for a changing of course, based on what we know, namely that they had said they had very little control over the boat, would be a necessity to sail to where they can and was less dangerous, given the sea conditions.

Ir seems an educated hypothesis to me and possible, don't you think so

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 11-10-2012 at 07:33 AM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #529  
Old 11-10-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 8,695
Thanks: 10
Thanked 115 Times in 109 Posts
Rep Power: 6
Minnewaska will become famous soon enough Minnewaska will become famous soon enough
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

I was going to ask if anyone had wind and sea data from the Bounty's last day and then realized, whether they were sailing or motoring won't change my opinion. The fatal flaw was made when they set to sea and put the crew and Coast Guard at undue risk of accomplishing their mission. Even if it is proven that a freak failure happened to the ship, that must be a consideration as well, unless you have no intention of calling on others to risk their lives to save yours.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #530  
Old 11-10-2012
kjango's Avatar
Orange is the new black.
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 336
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 7
kjango is on a distinguished road
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

I heard from a reliable source that boat had a hole in it the size of Buick Electra !!!!!!!! I also heard that boat was just a facade like those towns in western movies.....didn't even have a port side. I heard.....................hhahhahahahhahahaha
chef2sail likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rhodes Bounty ll white rabbit Introduce Yourself 3 2 Weeks Ago 05:00 AM
New Member - Hardin 45 ( 44 voyager bounty ) Bianchi Introduce Yourself 9 01-29-2011 09:33 PM
HELP!! , Need move a boat NC to WA (Rhodes Bounty II, 40'10 x 28' x 10'3" x 5'9") sailandoar General Discussion (sailing related) 1 08-23-2006 01:11 PM
Bounty Windjammer Spectacle (Boothbay Register) NewsReader News Feeds 0 06-23-2006 03:15 PM
April 28, 1789, Aboard the HMS Bounty: NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 04-28-2006 01:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:39 PM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.