HMS Bounty in trouble... - Page 53 - SailNet Community
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post #521 of 1950 Old 11-09-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Anyway, this is an issue that I think got very confused due to the SW/SE confusion. Its clear from their path that they weren't making any serious effort to get East of the storm, but some initially said they were. It seems most likely that they were just heading south until they got a better idea of where they needed to be to catch the Western side. As it turned out, the storm headed West, so they needed to make the most dramatic adjustment. That's my theory.
I'm not sure how far north the storm had progressed when the ship sank, but I was thinking they were either northwest of the eye or directly west of it. If the captain wanted to get to the southeast quadrant, wouldn't it make sense he would have sailed along the western edge, then turned east after he had reached the southern edge of the storm? With the rotation of the storm and the apparent fact the ship sailed very poorly into the wind, that would seem the most logical route. So if he really was heading for the southeast quadrant, he couldn't have made that easterly heading until after the eye had passed to the north.

Of course, the extreme adrenaline junkie would have sailed right into the eye and popped back out the other side.

But really, if he wanted to get a "good ride" out of the storm AND reach his destination ASAP, he would have stayed to the west of the storm and hit that southwest quadrant.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

A lot of this depends on the sea state in that area off of Hatterass. Not only the shoals, but the Gulf Stream wind direction relative to it may have forced his hand as to direction he could sail. It was interesting to read about the righting moment and angle of heel which the boat could not recover from with relation to the angle of the sails and thie settings. Managing these ships and I am no expert at all so I post that disclaimer is somehwat different from sailing our sloops, Ketches.

Close hauled isnt a term they apparently can use.

I dont know enough to comment on this and am willing to admit it and dont hink it wise to speculate. which angle he should have attacked this storm because I dont know how to sail this type of ship, I dont know the specific conditions he was encountering other than lots of wind and large seas ( I dont know the sea state) and the other factors which would casuse him to sail a particular course ( water in the boat etc.)

As the facts come out it will present more and more of a picture as to the actual events which happened from the Bountys perspective. This will be helpful and maybe an educational moment for us and others when this is found out.

This does not abbrogate his responsibility for leaving knowing there was the oncomming storm.



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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Some data which might explain the vessels abrupt change of course from S to SW on the 27th: this shows that they only changed course towards the SW after they were clear of the Gulf Stream. It looks likely that they actually encountered the worst of the storm while out of the stream.
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post #524 of 1950 Old 11-09-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

One of the crew members said that they have little control. This was a sailboat with auxiliary engines and I don't think they were sailing. I guess that when things got really bad they had no choice except to do what the sea allowed them to do and they took the easiest course regarding the sea.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
One of the crew members said that they have little control. This was a sailboat with auxiliary engines and I don't think they were sailing.
How do you know they weren't sailing?

Quote:
I guess that when things got really bad they had no choice except to do what the sea allowed them to do and they took the easiest course regarding the sea.P
Assumption based without facts are dangerous


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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Assumption based without facts are dangerous

HEY! This is the Internet!
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
A lot of this depends on the sea state in that area off of Hatterass. Not only the shoals, but the Gulf Stream wind direction relative to it may have forced his hand as to direction he could sail. It was interesting to read about the righting moment and angle of heel which the boat could not recover from with relation to the angle of the sails and thie settings. Managing these ships and I am no expert at all so I post that disclaimer is somehwat different from sailing our sloops, Ketches.

Close hauled isnt a term they apparently can use.

I dont know enough to comment on this and am willing to admit it and dont hink it wise to speculate. which angle he should have attacked this storm because I dont know how to sail this type of ship, I dont know the specific conditions he was encountering other than lots of wind and large seas ( I dont know the sea state) and the other factors which would casuse him to sail a particular course ( water in the boat etc.)

As the facts come out it will present more and more of a picture as to the actual events which happened from the Bountys perspective. This will be helpful and maybe an educational moment for us and others when this is found out.

This does not abbrogate his responsibility for leaving knowing there was the oncomming storm.



Dave

From what I have read, the square riggers are only able to point up about 20 degrees, not 20 degrees off the wind, 20 degrees off a beam reach. They also make a tremendous amount of leeway. This would drastically limit his options for setting a course under sail only.

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post #528 of 1950 Old 11-10-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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How do you know they weren't sailing?
...
Assumption based without facts are dangerous
Jesus Dave, educated guesses is what we can do. I said "probably they were not sailing". No one refereed to that specifically, but we knew they had a very reduced crew for the needs of the boat, namely sailing and we knew they had considered the loss of engines as one of the determinant causes of the loss of the boat. If they were sailing that would not be a big deal since the energy for pumps come from generators.

One of the science instruments are educated assumptions (hypothesis) that later are tested to see if they prove right or wrong.

I am not saying that it was like that I am saying that a possible cause for a changing of course, based on what we know, namely that they had said they had very little control over the boat, would be a necessity to sail to where they can and was less dangerous, given the sea conditions.

Ir seems an educated hypothesis to me and possible, don't you think so

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 11-10-2012 at 07:33 AM.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

I was going to ask if anyone had wind and sea data from the Bounty's last day and then realized, whether they were sailing or motoring won't change my opinion. The fatal flaw was made when they set to sea and put the crew and Coast Guard at undue risk of accomplishing their mission. Even if it is proven that a freak failure happened to the ship, that must be a consideration as well, unless you have no intention of calling on others to risk their lives to save yours.


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post #530 of 1950 Old 11-10-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

I heard from a reliable source that boat had a hole in it the size of Buick Electra !!!!!!!! I also heard that boat was just a facade like those towns in western movies.....didn't even have a port side. I heard.....................hhahhahahahhahahaha
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