HMS Bounty in trouble... - Page 59 - SailNet Community
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post #581 of 1950 Old 11-12-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
I know it's difficult but if you think of lawyers as scavenging seagulls this thing has got to be like a ship throwing a bucket of rotten bait over the side.
No doubt, you are right.
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post #582 of 1950 Old 11-12-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Forced to go to sea on a death ship into the Graveyard of the Atlantic during a Hurricane" that's gotta be worth bucks if the crew listens to lawyers...MarkSealife.
More speculative conclusions based on speculative evidence leading to unfounded emotion laden words leading to grandious ending.

How about we let the facts come out. Conclusions based on hypothesis by ametuers without a grasp on what is fact, what is rumor, what is contrived fact leads to nowhere really. Let the professionsals figure it out.

Ever notice the TRUE professioals are not predisopsing themselves to conclusions here?

Dave


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post #583 of 1950 Old 11-12-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
....

Ever notice the TRUE professioals are not predisopsing themselves to conclusions here?

Dave
You mean like Coast Guard spokesman Lieutenant Michael Patterson that says:

"Professional mariners know how to take avoidance measures"

Coast Guard to investigate sinking of HMS Bounty replica | Reuters

or the several Tall ship Captains that said that Bounty's Captain should never had sailed out of Port with an hurricane out there?

Regards

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post #584 of 1950 Old 11-12-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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or the several Tall ship Captains that said that Bounty's Captain should never had sailed out of Port with an hurricane out there-PCP?
I am not disputing this. How many times do I have to reiterate that. In fact why do you keep beating this dead horse?

There are many many more facts yet to be discovered here. The Captain has alreadt been found guility in the srena of public opion. The speculation of other so called facts are not facts and just wild speculation. Doesnt make any difference if they are obn gCaptain or and other blog sites that ANYONE can join.

In order for their to be lessons learned so this doesnt happene again, which if I rememeber you stated is your CHIEF concern ( sic) the investigation needs to be carried out.


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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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There is a "chef" on every forum. Sometimes more than one. Sal Paridise
Would you be one Sal?


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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
...

In order for their to be lessons learned so this doesnt happene again, which if I rememeber you stated is your CHIEF concern ( sic) the investigation needs to be carried out.
Yes, I absolutely agree with that.

Regards

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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post

How about we let the facts come out. Conclusions based on hypothesis by ametuers without a grasp on what is fact, what is rumor, what is contrived fact leads to nowhere really. Let the professionsals figure it out.

Ever notice the TRUE professioals are not predisopsing themselves to conclusions here?

Dave
Sorry, but seems to me if one is determined to avoid ANY speculation about this incident whatsoever, seems the only way to do that is to refrain from discussing it at all...

Much of what you presumably would consider 'speculation' has been, in fact, based upon reported 'facts' that have subsequently been proven to be erroneous... I was chided earlier in this thread for "rushing to judgement", for example, by another poster who had initially passed on the information that the BOUNTY was on passage from Nova Scotia, and had attempted to sail east of the storm...

I've tried to refrain from pure speculation here, but some of the information that has come to light as "fact" positively reeks of incredulity... Waldbridge's claim of "having sailed the B0UNTY in 70-foot seas", for example... If by that he means a significant wave height of 70', do you all comprehend how extraordinarily rare in reality such conditions are?

Quote:

Generally, the statistical distribution of the individual wave heights is well approximated by a Rayleigh distribution.[4] For example, given that Hs is 70 feet, statistically:

1 in 10 will be larger than 75 ft
1 in 100 will be larger than 105 ft
1 in 1000 will be larger than 125 ft
Seriously??? I know a retired ship captain from Oz, sailed the Bass Strait for 18 years... He has NEVER seen conditions remotely close to what could legitimately be described as "70-foot seas"... So, yeah, I feel pretty comfortable 'speculating' that Waldbridge is full of sh_t with that particular claim - much less, that standing on deck in such conditions was not much different from standing on her deck at dockside... I don't think one has to be a "credentialed expert" to realize such posturing is pure BS...

If anything, seems to me that most of the 'speculation' engaged in during the course of this thread has come from those who appear to be loosely "in defense of" of the captain. I have seen nothing to support the notion advanced that the BOUNTY might have been ordered to leave New London, for example - and yet, some hear have tossed that out as a potential mitigating factor... Aside from appearing purely speculative, it's a moot point, in any event. Even if the BOUNTY had been ordered to depart, Waldbridge still had many options to consider. He might have tried to get inside the hurricane barrier at New Bedford, or run up Narragannsett Bay... Or, put into a place like Pt Jefferson on the north shore of LI... Or, up the Hudson, or Delaware, or into Norfolk/Hampton Roads, or up the York or James Rivers... Any of which, he had time to do... No freakin' way would he have not only been ordered to leave New London, but to attempt to shoot the gap between Sandy and Hatteras, as well...

Finally, I see plenty of pretty informed opinion and knowledge being passed here, no shortage of posters here and elsewhere who have a pretty fair idea what they're talking about. I think it's a bit unfair to dismiss some out of hand simply because they might technically be coming from "amateurs", instead of credentialed professionals... Frankly, one of the stupidest opinions I've seen offered anywhere regarding this tragedy came from an ostensible ship captain in defense of Waldbridge in one of the earlier articles cited - something to the effect of "he actually had A VERY GOOD PLAN, he just didn't count on the complete loss/failure of his pumps and generators..."

I don't care what that guy's credentials are, IMHO such is the opinion of a fool, and certainly not any captain I'd ever care to go to sea with...

btw, it's also been reported as fact that the BOUNTY had sailed "through" at least 2 hurricanes previously... Has anyone found cites or confirmations that would be more specific?

Again, perhaps it's just me... But it seems as if those who believe that some mitigating factors might eventually emerge, that will justify or make the captain's decisions and actions appear reasonable, prudent, or seamanlike, are the ones who are REALLY engaging in "speculation", here... (grin) Seems rather unlikely, when it appears no one here so far can even IMAGINE a scenario in which this voyage made any real sense...

Last edited by JonEisberg; 11-12-2012 at 08:37 PM.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
More speculative conclusions based on speculative evidence leading to unfounded emotion laden words leading to grandious ending.

How about we let the facts come out. Conclusions based on hypothesis by ametuers without a grasp on what is fact, what is rumor, what is contrived fact leads to nowhere really. Let the professionsals figure it out.

Ever notice the TRUE professioals are not predisopsing themselves to conclusions here?

Dave
Oi! Dave,
You've taken that in totally the wrong context! And you know it!
I was talking about what lawyers will be trying to say to get damages payouts for the crew.

Now be good and don't misquote posts that are in plain English.


Mark

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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Our buddy, Chef, has taken on the mission to preserve the Captain's dignity until all the facts are known. He's as entitled to that mission as most of us are entitled to point out how stupid the Capt was.

There is a saying in flying. You're only as good as your last landing. And it's true. I've never had a passenger that felt otherwise. Bird stike, get us on the ground alive. Engine failure, get us on the ground alive. etc. etc. That's your job as Captain and why we don't aim the pointy end at a thunderstorm, let alone a hurricane, even if we've survived a pop up storm before.


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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

What I care about is NOTHING to do with the Bountys ship, captain or crew. What I care about is the myriad of cruisers and potential cruisers out there who, each year, sail around Cape Hatteras, through, across or against the Gulf Stream either in winter, Novermber and December, or in the Hurricane season June, and October.

It's those people who cannot wait till some enquiry is complete in two years time. They need reminding NOW that they should sail in the correct season, watch the weather, do not go through the Gulf Stream in more than 20 knots from the North, Or North East, and do not play with Northers, Hurricanes, Rages or the like.

Those are the points that can be gleaned from this disaster now and need to be disseminated now!



The Caribbean 1500 starts in 8 days and remember two years ago a woman was killed when a boat tried to enter a cut in the Bahamas in a Norther in Rage conditions.
We have 8 days to ensure these folks know the responsibility is on themselves to set off in this race, not the organizers. If a Northerly comes up they must not go into the Gulf Stream, nor try the Bahamas cuts. Nor leave port at all if the weather is that bad.



I don't need a ticket from a Kornflake packet to tell me that.


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