HMS Bounty in trouble... - Page 62 - SailNet Community

   Search Sailnet:

 forums  store  


Quick Menu
Forums           
Articles          
Galleries        
Boat Reviews  
Classifieds     
Search SailNet 
Boat Search (new)

Shop the
SailNet Store
Anchor Locker
Boatbuilding & Repair
Charts
Clothing
Electrical
Electronics
Engine
Hatches and Portlights
Interior And Galley
Maintenance
Marine Electronics
Navigation
Other Items
Plumbing and Pumps
Rigging
Safety
Sailing Hardware
Trailer & Watersports
Clearance Items

Advertise Here






Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Vessels Lost, Missing, or in Danger
 Not a Member? 


Like Tree718Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #611  
Old 11-13-2012
chef2sail's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 6,828
Thanks: 28
Thanked 53 Times in 49 Posts
Rep Power: 7
chef2sail will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to chef2sail
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
That's why the reports typically posit proximate cause, contributing causes, findings of fact, and recommendations for the future. -Nolatom


That says it in a nutshell I beleive. And that from a previous board investigative board member if his credentials are correct.

I submit aside from the fact that he sailed into a hurricane, there is no concrete evidence about the condition of the ship that day which has been verfied, the captains and the crews sailing profile of the day, how they handled the emergency, etc. just speculatuion from past pictures etc.

First hand testimony is needed.

One question I still have which I am suprised has not been brought up. Why did they not have the CG come get them when the first emergency call went out. They were well past the storm center at that point and in the SW quadrant. Were the conditions at that point not warrenting an evacuation or should it have been done then.

dave
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
___________________________
S/V Haleakala (Hawaiian for" House of the Sun")
C&C 35 MKIII Hull # 76
Parkville, Maryland
(photos by Joe McCary)
Charter member of the Chesapeake Lion posse

Our blog-
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


“Sailing is just the bottom line, like adding up the score in bridge. My real interest is in the tremendous game of life.”- Dennis Conner
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #612  
Old 11-13-2012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 1,833
Thanks: 4
Thanked 21 Times in 19 Posts
Rep Power: 10
nolatom will become famous soon enough
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
I didn't say the authorities weren't interested and acknowledged the side affect.

However, is educating the public a mandatory outcome of the investigation?
Okay, then it's difficult for me to discern what "invested" means as you use it.

And no, we didn't go out and lecture. But the reports are on-line, and if read, they do educate, and, I believe, are intended to do so. Otherwise we'd do check lists and not write reports. They're used by industry publications and by academic writers in maritime law journals and also make their way into license prep courses and curricula of the maritime schools.

Whether that's a "byproduct" or a direct result Is, I think, semantic.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #613  
Old 11-13-2012
smurphny's Avatar
Over Hill Sailing Club
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Adirondacks NY
Posts: 2,673
Thanks: 48
Thanked 56 Times in 54 Posts
Rep Power: 6
smurphny is on a distinguished road
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
The captain is the responsible for the safety of its crew and should avoid taking any risks that can put it at risk. On the Farlones incident obviously the captain was responsible. it was my opinion at the time and it is the opinion of the CG when they say he "cut to close". He could have avoided that risk.

As a mitigating factor the Captain on the Farlone incident was a non professional captain with a racing crew participating in a race. I would say that will racing some risks are acceptable but not any that put on jeopardy the lives of the crew or the boat safety.

The hugely different factor between the two accidents is that one happened with an amateur captain the other one with a professional Captain.

For what I understood in the US and in some countries like UK any person can be a Captain of a private sailing boat without any qualifications to do that. That is not the case with a professional Captain that is a highly qualified professional and certified in that quality by a licence.

Regards

Paulo
Licenses and training and red tape often have little correlation with actual competence. People get pieces of paper by taking tests, jumping through hoops, and by kissing the right arses. Unfortunately many of the pieces of paper hung on walls and submitted in resume's are quite meaningless. The thing NONE of these credentialing processes measure is common sense and the ability to use knowledge when it counts.
chef2sail and Brewgyver like this.
__________________
Alberg 35: With a philosophical flourish Cato throws himself upon his sword; I quietly take to the ship.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #614  
Old 11-13-2012
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,160
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
Licenses and training and red tape often have little correlation with actual competence. .... Unfortunately many of the pieces of paper hung on walls and submitted in resume's are quite meaningless. The thing NONE of these credentialing processes measure is common sense and the ability to use knowledge when it counts.
Come on what are you saying? That a highly qualified Captain is no more competent than an amateur sailor in what regards taking decisions in what regards the safety of a ship? I am not talking about miraculous exceptions, I am talking about reality.

Our civilization and culture has as base qualifications and specializations for everything that we do that requires knowledge.

Do you have as much confidence on the advise of a guy that has an interest in medicine than on the one that is of formal trained doctor?

Do you think that we should not qualify formally professionals because "Licenses and training and red tape often have little correlation with actual competence"?

Would you fell safe in knowing that the guy that is flying the commercial airplane where you are flying in is just an amateur with some experience?

Or that the stability calculations for the house where you live in (on a 20 store building) where not done by a professional engineer but by an amateur that has some experience?

Come on

Regards

Paulo
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #615  
Old 11-13-2012
MarkofSeaLife's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,980
Thanks: 25
Thanked 40 Times in 37 Posts
Rep Power: 4
MarkofSeaLife is on a distinguished road
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post

Do you think that we should not qualify formally professionals because "Licenses and training and red tape often have little correlation with actual competence"?

Paulo
Absolutely.

The armies of the world have one very difficult thing to asses of their officers during training: will he be brave and lead his troops on into battle? Or will he get scared and run away?

It's the same in captains license exams. How can they tell who is full of bravado and no common sense? Who is competent but panics? Who is dumb as a bum but in a stress situation comes out better than his exam marks suggest?

Oh, yes, the ticket means little. That's why forum people who call themselves Captain when they only have a basic ticket make me laugh. I know the USA is a different culture, but really, "Captain" because they have done a friggin night course behind a desk to let them hire a 30 foot beneteau at Moorings?
__________________
Sea Life
Notes on a Circumnavigation:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #616  
Old 11-13-2012
casey1999's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: HI
Posts: 2,780
Thanks: 3
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 4
casey1999 is on a distinguished road
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by turban10 View Post
How sad for those two missing. I hope they are found. I can't imagine bobing up and down in such seas wondering if you are going to be rescued.

Replica or not, the HMS Bounty was a amazing looking ship. It is a real shame to lose something so beautiful.
The "beauty" of HMS Bounty was apparently only skin deep. Rember this next time your dreaming about that really "hot" chick.
YukonJack likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #617  
Old 11-13-2012
MarkofSeaLife's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,980
Thanks: 25
Thanked 40 Times in 37 Posts
Rep Power: 4
MarkofSeaLife is on a distinguished road
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by casey1999 View Post
The "beauty" of HMS Bounty was apparently only skin deep. Rember this next time your dreaming about that really "hot" chick.
Or the next time you are buying a boat and some old twit says to look at the boats "lines". Well you can't see the lines from on board and a storm don't give a sh$&@!

A boat is a conveyance to get from here to there safely. In 1787 when the real bounty was built they didn't give a dam about how she looked, it was just about how many oceans she could cross and how many guns she could carry. Just like a modern cargo ship....except for the guns!
YukonJack likes this.
__________________
Sea Life
Notes on a Circumnavigation:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #618  
Old 11-13-2012
PCP's Avatar
PCP PCP is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portugal, West Coast
Posts: 16,160
Thanks: 21
Thanked 95 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
PCP will become famous soon enough
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
Absolutely.

The armies of the world have one very difficult thing to asses of their officers during training: will he be brave and lead his troops on into battle? Or will he get scared and run away?

It's the same in captains license exams. How can they tell who is full of bravado and no common sense? Who is competent but panics? Who is dumb as a bum but in a stress situation comes out better than his exam marks suggest?

Oh, yes, the ticket means little. That's why forum people who call themselves Captain when they only have a basic ticket make me laugh. I know the USA is a different culture, but really, "Captain" because they have done a friggin night course behind a desk to let them hire a 30 foot beneteau at Moorings?
I confess I did not understand if you are kidding or if you are for real: You mean let's stop qualifying professionals because they are no better than unqualified ones? You mean only sea captains or all, doctors, engineers, architects and the lot... That is plain crazy.

Regarding the ticket as you call it, what I was talking about was this:

"That a highly qualified Captain is no more competent than an amateur sailor in what regards taking decisions in what regards the safety of a ship? I am not talking about miraculous exceptions, I am talking about reality."

A ticket for a Ship professional sea captain is not a night course, at least here

Do you really think what you have said about this or are you just kidding?

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 11-13-2012 at 07:06 PM.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #619  
Old 11-13-2012
casey1999's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: HI
Posts: 2,780
Thanks: 3
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 4
casey1999 is on a distinguished road
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Southwest was clearly the one he was going for, based on the satellite tracking of the ship's position. I do believe that would be to get the wind behind him on that trip.

Which he actually said seems unclear.
I was thinking about that interview with the Capt before departure. In the interview the Capt made a circle with his thumbs and forefinger stating he wanted to take the ship into the position of his right thumb (SE part of Sandy), article said no crew questioned him. Interesting he was telling the crew he was going to take the ship into head winds and seas (while trying to go south) and no one said "hey Capt, don't you mean your left thumb" (SW part of sandy), where apparently he actually went with stern winds and waves not off the bow.

Seems no one questioned the Capt.- ever.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
  #620  
Old 11-13-2012
casey1999's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: HI
Posts: 2,780
Thanks: 3
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
Rep Power: 4
casey1999 is on a distinguished road
Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
Or the next time you are buying a boat and some old twit says to look at the boats "lines". Well you can't see the lines from on board and a storm don't give a sh$&@!

A boat is a conveyance to get from here to there safely. In 1787 when the real bounty was built they didn't give a dam about how she looked, it was just about how many oceans she could cross and how many guns she could carry. Just like a modern cargo ship....except for the guns!
Agree, and now days off Somalia, the guns are even useful...
YukonJack likes this.
Reply With Quote Share with Facebook
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

 
Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rhodes Bounty ll white rabbit Introduce Yourself 3 1 Week Ago 05:00 AM
New Member - Hardin 45 ( 44 voyager bounty ) Bianchi Introduce Yourself 9 01-29-2011 09:33 PM
HELP!! , Need move a boat NC to WA (Rhodes Bounty II, 40'10 x 28' x 10'3" x 5'9") sailandoar General Discussion (sailing related) 1 08-23-2006 01:11 PM
Bounty Windjammer Spectacle (Boothbay Register) NewsReader News Feeds 0 06-23-2006 03:15 PM
April 28, 1789, Aboard the HMS Bounty: NewsReader Mass Bay Sailors 0 04-28-2006 01:15 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:27 AM.

Add to My Yahoo!         
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
(c) Marine.com LLC 2000-2012

The SailNet.com store is owned and operated by a company independent of the SailNet.com forum. You are now leaving the SailNet forum. Click OK to continue or Cancel to return to the SailNet forum.