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Go Back   SailNet Community > Out There > Vessels Lost, Missing, or in Danger
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  #801  
Old 11-20-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hartley18 View Post
I, for one, wish there were more people out there like that.
I don't know If I agree. Well, the guy did not ask for help and I applaud that, but he was crossing an Ocean with a boat that was not made for it and obviously taking risks and did not have means foe long distance communications. He did not call for help but someone of his relations obviously asked because the guy was not communicating, so in fact this is one of the cases where the non sailors would say (with reason): There they are doing stupid things and wasting huge amounts of our money to save them or to know that they are not in danger.

These are the ones that make the news, like that 69 year's old grand mother that is circumnavigating non-stop, that guy that is going to do the same on a 10ft boat or the other one that is doing that in a sportive way trying to be the faster amateur doing that on a A35. The A35 is a great boat that has crossed oceans many times but ask to a real pro, the ones that race the Open60, to go sail with one on the great southern sea desert at 50º latitude and they will no do it because it is too risky. These are just the more know because they get sponsors and publicity but for each of one I am sure that there are dozens doing stupid and dangerous things in a boat.

You can say: It's their live and all the non sailors would say: It's our money that is used to rescue them.

Sooner or latter the increasing number of these cases will have dire consequences to all prudent sailors that don't do risky things but, as in all things in life, can have a need for help.

You guys consider Europe as a bunch of nanny states and not agreeing in the essential I understand the point. We take care of ours and here nobody dies if someone needs medical attention and has no money.

I understand that someone can disagree with that namely in the case of a guy that has wealth problems because all his life he had taken risks that lead to the need of that medical treatment but what I don't understand is why the same kind of reason is not applied to sailors: Why should prudent citizens pay for expensive rescues to guys that are stupidly risking their lives in inadequate boats and without the knowledge to do what they are doing. It is their fault anyway. Why should all pay for their stupidity?

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 11-20-2012 at 08:24 AM.
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  #802  
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On Insidenova.com there is an interview with the "engineer". Article is called Surviving the Bounty. He had joined the ship two months ago. Captain explained at the dock what was up and said he'd understand if they wanted to bail.

Had been around small boats all his life. Received basic safety training and some instruction on climbing the rigging. I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt and assume he's a crack diesel and genset guy. He owns a handyman business, not exactly qualifying credentials to be in charge of big marine diesels and gensets.

No mention of the fact that maybe if they had a proper engineer the engine wouldn't have failed.


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  #803  
Old 11-20-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Why should prudent citizens pay for expensive rescues to guys that are stupidly risking their lives in inadequate boats and without the knowledge to do what they are doing. It is their fault anyway. Why should all pay for their stupidity
Should we just rescue the guys on the Berring Sea who fish for crab in horrendous conditions?

Dave
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  #804  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
Should we just rescue the guys on the Berring Sea who fish for crab in horrendous conditions?

Dave
No Dave, I think that even the people that is just left do die because they cannot pay the hospital bills should be saved.

what I mean is that good sense is needed here and if the good sense continues to lack and the number of rescues continue to raise, someday we will all have to pay, kind of the rescues being paid by a mandatory insurance...and that is not going to be cheap

Regards

Paulo
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  #805  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatballer View Post
On Insidenova.com there is an interview with the "engineer". Article is called Surviving the Bounty. He had joined the ship two months ago. Captain explained at the dock what was up and said he'd understand if they wanted to bail.

Had been around small boats all his life. Received basic safety training and some instruction on climbing the rigging. I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt and assume he's a crack diesel and genset guy. He owns a handyman business, not exactly qualifying credentials to be in charge of big marine diesels and gensets.

No mention of the fact that maybe if they had a proper engineer the engine wouldn't have failed.


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You mean this?:

quote:

The storm was not unexpected by the crew; Walbridge had called everyone on deck to tell them about the approaching hurricane before they left Connecticut, saying he would under-stand if people decided to get off the ship, Barksdale said.

Everyone stayed.

“Naturally I was a little hesitant about that, but [the captain] explained the situation and it seemed like he had a pretty good strategy,” Barksdale said. “We were going to try and get around the hurricane. Nobody knew that it was going to have the in-tensity and size it ended up having.”

Rough winds and waves shook the ship for about a day and a half.
Crewmembers had to cling to parts of the Bounty or they would be thrown overboard.

Around midday Oct. 28, the crew noticed the ship was taking on more water than normal. Mechanical problems developed, including the failure of one of the main engines and the water pumps. The U.S. Coast Guard and the Bounty’s land office were alerted.

Conditions worsened later in the day. Crew members began pulling out immersion suits — used to keep them dry and warm in the water — and stuffing dry bags with rations in case the order came to abandon ship, Barksdale said.

Up until the early hours of Oct. 29, the crew’s priority was saving the ship.

...

When the battered and sleep-deprived crew went on deck in the hours before dawn, waves continued to hammer the ship. The Bounty had taken on so much water she was almost on her side with her three masts in the ocean.“It became apparent that you didn’t have much choice, you were going in that water,” Barksdale said.

....

Barksdale became a crew-member a few months ago, when his friend and the Bounty’s first mate, John Svend-sen, asked him to fill the engineer’s spot on the crew. Barksdale had declined last spring due to family and business obligations, but agreed this time thinking if he turned down his friend again, Svendsen would stop calling.

....

As the engineer, Barksdale was responsible for the engines, electrical generation and water systems. He was with the crew for almost two months.
Barksdale has been around small boats for most of his life, but this was his first experience with a tall ship. Before setting sail, he received basic safety training and some instruction on climbing in the rigging.

....

His life already has started re-turning to normal, with work calls coming in for his small business, Honey-Do Handyman. His clients and friends have sent cards, called and emailed since they heard about the Bounty.


Surviving the Bounty: Va. man recalls sinking of HMS Bounty during superstorm Sandy - INSIDENOVA.COM: Virginia & Region: headlines, headlinesscs,

Well, this seems to bring new information:

The Engineer was an Handy-Man and the pumps failed prior of at least one engine. The "engineer" aboard should know about that.

Regards

Paulo
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
It seems that there is yet some good amateur sailors out there. About this one I have mixed feelings: I would have not attempted to cross the Atlantic in such a light and small cat, I guess that it was risky and foolish but at least the guy took the risks alone, did not cry for help when things went wrong (and he had an Epirb) and I guess he would have made it back home alone.

BBC News - Skipper of missing Orinoco Flo 'gutted' to be rescued

Boat builder stranded alone at sea for 50 DAYS after mast snapped as he crossed the Atlantic in friend's boat | Mail Online

Regards

Paulo
Good articles, that Matt Gill is not only quite a sailor, but a great artist..
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PCP View Post
No Dave, I think that even the people that is just left do die because they cannot pay the hospital bills should be saved.

what I mean is that good sense is needed here and if the good sense continues to lack and the number of rescues continue to raise, someday we will all have to pay, kind of the rescues being paid by a mandatory insurance...and that is not going to be cheap

Regards

Paulo
Exactly, that is what I am thinking will happen. Before you are allowed to depart on an ocean crossing passage, you will be required to post insurance or a bond that would cover your rescue if needed.
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  #808  
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Before you are allowed to depart on an ocean crossing passage, you will be required to post insurance or a bond that would cover your rescue if needed.
How are you going to enforce this? Does it mean going to the Carribean? Fishing of the coast of NJ in winter for clams> Oopelio crab fishing in the Bering Sea?
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

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Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
How are you going to enforce this? Does it mean going to the Carribean? Fishing of the coast of NJ in winter for clams> Oopelio crab fishing in the Bering Sea?
Not sure, but then I am not sure how the government is going to enforce Obama Care. How will Obama Care be enforced for the many (and growing) population of homeless, unemployed americans, whom have little or no assets, no address, and do not file taxes?

Any off shore passage that requires an overnight stay on your boat at sea would require the insurance/bond. This would only apply to pleasure boats (including "display" boats).

Last edited by casey1999; 11-20-2012 at 12:55 PM.
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
How are you going to enforce this?...
We are talking about pleasure boats and enforce that don't seem difficult to me. I guess that it would be the same way that here it is enforced a mandatory insurance of the boat (third party): They just ask you the paper everywhere, at the marina, on boat inspections, at random inspections.

I think Casey is talking about any boat that does not sail locally. If you don't sail locally sooner or later you would have to go to a marina for water and diesel, if your boat is not a local one they will ask you the paper boats and insurance. In Europe they ask for that for your licence and sometimes for your radio operator licence. They ask because if they don't ask and the coast guard knows about that the ones that are screwed are they.

If it is not like that in US, I guess that it would have to be like that to enforce the mandatory rescue insurance. I guess the authorities will have not any problem if they want to enforce that.

Note that I don't want nothing of this to happen and it is because I don't want to pay for the ones that are reckless and take stupid risks that I think something has to be made to regulate the pleasure sailing and prevent irresponsible sailors to do very risky stunts, the kind that is making the number of rescues to raise sharply on the last 10 years.

Not a problem here. It is already regulated (on most countries) but I guess that if US goes to a mandatory rescue insurance the measure will come here anyway.

Even if I don't like it a bit, a mandatory rescue insurance will be an effective measure. It will make possible even for the ones that want to go offshore on old boats in bad condition or in inadequate boats to do so but the premium would be so big in that case that would really discourage them do that. For guys with big new boats the premium would be probably very small unless the area to sail was particularly dangerous.

Regards

Paulo
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