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  #941  
Old 11-26-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Do you guys ever looks the water? what a horrible console to look at. Did you ever leave the office? aeventyr60
I make no apologies for the console. I also have no problem seeing the water or the sails in my sailing. The electronics ( chartplotter, depthfinder ) serve as aides to navigation to make our sailing safer and the autopilot located on the navpod serves to spell us on long passages offshore when we do costal cruising so we dont tire unecessarily and stay alert. If you chose not to go the same route as I do, that doesnt make you a better or worse sailor.

However your appparent intolereance for others who see the world different than you and your inability to discuss items rationally with fellow humans leads me to beleive its a good thing you are in the South China Sea and exploring Nepal. Getting along with others who are not the same as you must create huge social anxiety in you that you need to lash out. Lets us know if you intend on entering the USA so I can alert homeland security



Quote:
Bottled water? aeventyr60
We refill about 20 of these bottles from a 5 gallon container as they store more easily in our refrigeration and reuse them for months

Thanks for your concern.

Two critical remarks with nothing positive to say. Thanks for your contribution to the community of sailors.
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  #942  
Old 11-26-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post

Riddle me this I cant seem to grasp this...one one hand you say refering to Barksdale:

Quote PCP:
His opinion or the opinion of the rest of the crew is irrelevant to asses if he was a good Captain or not.PCP


then on the other hand you say

Quote:
The rest is already been told in other article even if this one is the best I have read.PCP


His opinion is irrelevant to asses but I will quote what he said and find it the best statement I have read, but I also quote the gCaptain bloggers too.

So is his opinion and statement relevant or not?

...
it seems pretty obvious to me but I will try to explain better.

Yes, this article is the better I have read since it makes the most complete resume of all incident, joining sequentially (regarding the accident) facts that have been cited in several other articles and joining some new information given by the boat "engineer".

The statement of the "engineer" is important since it shed some some light over the ship conditions and about facts regarding the accident. It is irrelevant in what respects Captain's responsibility in what regards having sailed the boat to the pass of a Hurricane knowing that he was there. His opinion regarding that irresponsible act is as irrelevant as the ones of the rest of the crew or the Bounty people.

It is already well established that Bounty's Captain committed a gross error of judgment sailing the boat to the path of an Hurricane, an error that is unacceptable in a professional Captain. What is to be established is not his responsibility in that but why the crew had followed him blindly on a foolish and very dangerous attempt to maneuver an hurricane.

Regarding this the Barksdale statement shades no more light than what was known before regarding the high esteem all the crew and all the Bounty people had for him, personally and as a Captain.

Regards

Paulo
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Last edited by PCP; 11-26-2012 at 10:17 AM.
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  #943  
Old 11-26-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
What is to be established is not his responsibility in that but why the crew had followed him blindly on a foolish and very dangerous attempt to maneuver an hurricane.

Regarding this the Barksdale statement shades no more light than what was known before regarding the high esteem all the crew and all the Bounty people had for him, personally and as a Captain PCP
I agree about his responsibility

I think your opinions of the members of his crew who you have prejudged predispose you to rejecting any comments about the Captain professionally. For some reason you sitting 3000 miles away can better determine the Captains qualifications and make comments and speculate on the why they followed him, then the first hand statements of one of the people on board. As I read Barksdales complete interview I came away with the impression it was fairly well thought out.

It didnt strike me as the musings of some groupie cult member who blindly followed him. Foolishly maybe...blindly no. In fact from the scenario he portrayed he spoke with all of the crew members and specifically gave them the option of staying. Did he cut them off from obtaining weather information....no. Did he corece them to go....doesnt appear so. Did he threaten them with actions if they didnt go...doesnt appear so, Did he drug them....probably not. So who fault was it that they went along not understanding the danger. I say they also made a bad choice. They trusted him too much. History is full of examples of this, that doesnt make them cult members.

This is why I asked before what would you do if you were presented with this situation? Call out the Captain? Call the owner? calll the CG? Call the Press?

Personally I wouldnt have gone, the danger and risk /reward was stacked against them big time. They made their own choices it appears, and they made incorrect ones. Hopefully they learned from this. The two who cant learn are the Captain and the female crew member who died.
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  #944  
Old 11-26-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JonEisberg View Post
I'm really perplexed why some appear to so strenuously reject the simple notion that today's technology might have been a contributing factor to an incident such as that involving RULE 62...
With both the Bounty and Rule 62 it had been cloudy for days so neither would have had a position for days using your technology.

The old stuff just doesn't hack it in the modern world.
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  #945  
Old 11-26-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

[QUOTE=chef2sail;953260]I make no apologies for the console. I also have no problem seeing the water or the sails in my sailing. The electronics ( chartplotter, depthfinder ) serve as aides to navigation to make our sailing safer and the autopilot located on the navpod serves to spell us on long passages offshore when we do costal cruising so we dont tire unecessarily and stay alert. If you chose not to go the same route as I do, that doesnt make you a better or worse sailor.

However your appparent intolereance for others who see the world different than you and your inability to discuss items rationally with fellow humans leads me to beleive its a good thing you are in the South China Sea and exploring Nepal. Getting along with others who are not the same as you must create huge social anxiety in you that you need to lash out. Lets us know if you intend on entering the USA so I can alert homeland security

Yep, rings on her fingers and a dodgy c clip on your aft life line...sure all the great screens in front of your face...wonder what else your missing? different route for sure? No intolerance, just pointing out some discrepancies, and some noted by other sailors too, gonna enter that reef entrance at night with all your electronic gadgets, or do you have the fortitude or know how to heave to for the night? something tells me you'll be explaining how you thought it was safe, all the gizmos were right on...or maybe you have a secret connection to the Bounty captain? Maybe if your take your heart off your sleeve you'll see that it is not lashing out, just pointing out some flaws. Yes, I'm sick of the damn water bottles. and I don;t care if you refill them a hundred times, still bad for your health and the environment. Bring on the DHS..what a worthless bunch of shitbags, still depending on them for your, so called "security"

So you survived "Sandy" good on you, I would of done the same. maybe you could add an MOB pole to your stern so somebody can find you too.
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  #946  
Old 11-26-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Troll alert

Please don't feed the seagulls.
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Old 11-26-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkofSeaLife View Post
With both the Bounty and Rule 62 it had been cloudy for days so neither would have had a position for days using your technology.

The old stuff just doesn't hack it in the modern world.
Yes, and his reliance on all the modern technology made him forget to look at the barometer, forget to use a 'walker log" or even count knots, not notice the swell, change in wind, humidity, birds heading for land, moisture or dew on the sails, a ring around the moon, mariners tails, ground swell, marking an ELP, DRP or any other basic sea man like skills? Wonder if he had Bowditch onboard? Do you think his crew could "box the compass" while on watch. A little far fetched for this guy to have "missed" all the warning signs.....with all that great technology at hand.
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  #948  
Old 11-26-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chef2sail View Post
I agree about his responsibility

I think your opinions of the members of his crew who you have prejudged predispose you to rejecting any comments about the Captain professionally. For some reason you sitting 3000 miles away can better determine the Captains qualifications and make comments and speculate on the why they followed him, then the first hand statements of one of the people on board. As I read Barksdales complete interview I came away with the impression it was fairly well thought out.

It didnt strike me as the musings of some groupie cult member who blindly followed him. Foolishly maybe...blindly no. In fact from the scenario he portrayed he spoke with all of the crew members and specifically gave them the option of staying. Did he cut them off from obtaining weather information....no. Did he corece them to go....doesnt appear so. Did he threaten them with actions if they didnt go...doesnt appear so, Did he drug them....probably not. So who fault was it that they went along not understanding the danger. I say they also made a bad choice. They trusted him too much. History is full of examples of this, that doesnt make them cult members.

This is why I asked before what would you do if you were presented with this situation? Call out the Captain? Call the owner? calll the CG? Call the Press?
...
I have already replied to your question. not only I would not have sailed to an Hurricane as I would have tried the others to do that.

Regarding the Captain I don't pre-Judge nothing. I have heard him saying foolish things about his ship and sailing conditions and I know that he took unacceptable risks with his ship (and not only now), that in the end lead to the ship lost and lost of lives. I guess he was a nice person and a good sailor but that has no relevance in what regards his decisions in what concern the safety of his crew and ship that should be always the first concern of any captain. A captain that takes wrong decisions about that or that does not take that as is first priority is not a good Captain.

Regards

Paulo

Last edited by PCP; 11-26-2012 at 12:30 PM.
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  #949  
Old 11-26-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Quote:
Yep, rings on her fingers and a dodgy c clip on your aft life line...sure all the great screens in front of your face...wonder what else your missing? different route for sure? No intolerance, just pointing out some discrepancies, and some noted by other sailors too, gonna enter that reef entrance at night with all your electronic gadgets, or do you have the fortitude or know how to heave to for the night? something tells me you'll be explaining how you thought it was safe, all the gizmos were right on...or maybe you have a secret connection to the Bounty captain? Maybe if your take your heart off your sleeve you'll see that it is not lashing out, just pointing out some flaws. Yes, I'm sick of the damn water bottles. and I don;t care if you refill them a hundred times, still bad for your health and the environment. Bring on the DHS..what a worthless bunch of shitbags, still depending on them for your, so called "security"

So you survived "Sandy" good on you, I would of done the same. maybe you could add an MOB pole to your stern so somebody can find you too.
Wow now take a swipe at my wife too..A nurse who helps save people lives? Notice she was smiling...having a good time/ Jealous????? You exude major classlessness. You sound somewhat bitter and lonely. I am so sorry you live such a banal existance you have to criticise those around you. Maybe if you worked harder instead of wandering aimlessly things would look up for you. You wouldnt be so angry and have some feeling of self worth so it woudnt be necessary to look at what others have and make comments.

I have no problem heaving to, would never enter a rage, actually never would have headed to the Bahamas. I fact I didnt. I have as much skill navigating and sailing my boat as I need to to sail where I sail. I can also do it without criticising what others have. What difference does that make really?

And oh my the way I worked hard and have a job so whats it to you if I spend it on rings for my wife, screens for my eyes, electrontics for our boat, there is a MOB pole as well as Lifesling, and dogy clips. I didnt spend your money did I? You didnt work for it? So why the jealousy.

Obviously you have been sleeping to long with the Yaks. Its time to put you on ignore,,,thats where all the trolls go.
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Last edited by chef2sail; 11-26-2012 at 12:26 PM.
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  #950  
Old 11-26-2012
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Re: HMS Bounty in trouble...

Hey Guys lets keep it civil.

Regarding water bottles I just love good water and the one that you get from the marinas, specially on Islands, is many times of bad quality and not tasty to say the least.

There are guys that think it is right to pack the boat with beer cans and that think it is wrong to pack it with good water bottled?

Normally when I have the boat in a place with a supermarket with good and inexpensive water I pack the boat with water, I mean something like 75L of water. It is not expensive and just adds 75L to my boat water tankage

Yes, I have lots of storage space for that, it would be different if I had a boat with less storage space.

....
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