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I woke up this morning to a rather stiff breeze so, lest I was just being a wimp, I looked it up to verify:
I see even stiffer winds in the Gulf. I had some issues with dragging anchor in St. Martin during the Christmas winds (~40 kts that day). I have a 44# Danforth on a 39' Beneteau. I threw an auxilary Fortress at about 30 degrees from the Danforth but still drug some. Any suggestions for weathering winds >30-35kts on the hook?
An effective anchor, lots of heavy chain and all the scope you can get out. That's about the sum of it.
I do like the modern anchor apps, which will both show me if I'm dragging and trigger an alarm if beyond whatever limit I set. They don't substitute for good seamanship and checking bearings, but one can't do that continuously. Having that interim app running is a major improvement in tranquility.
Rocna on all chain with two snubbers and 200' out. Have stayed in place with four vanes. Weigh 30k.
Some say drop your secondary anchor straight down off the bow so it's just has a bit more then the depth with the swells added in to keep you lined up. Never did that so don't know.
If you ever drag would think to upgrade anchoring system. Too much at stake to do otherwise.
mangroves... med tie in mangroves with nose into wind. that will keep you from dragging. florida has many mangrove banks... use all chain with your anchor and make sure you are well stuck.
In my worst-ever anchorage, I set my CQR first, backing down on it to set it securely, then motored forward at about a 45 degree angle and lowered my Danforth, backed down on it and set it securely, both with ample scope. The boat stayed put all night.
There are some sub-surfaces where I can get my CQR to stick hard, but others where keeping the drag down to 1kt under full reverse is about as good as the thing gets. Let's face it, the fluke shape is the same as a field plow, which is not designed to get stuck.
We have been in St Marteens in a blow and a couple of boats did drag but most stayed put. How much chain and what size did you have out and what was your scope? And you may want to do some research on anchors as a few years ago West Marine had a great video on anchor tests and which ones held the best.
I woke up this morning to a rather stiff breeze so, lest I was just being a wimp, I looked it up to verify:
...
I see even stiffer winds in the Gulf. I had some issues with dragging anchor in St. Martin during the Christmas winds (~40 kts that day). I have a 44# Danforth on a 39' Beneteau. I threw an auxilary Fortress at about 30 degrees from the Danforth but still drug some. Any suggestions for weathering winds >30-35kts on the hook?
Dragging at anchor is never fun... It happens to everyone eventually, like going aground...
To be of better assistance, we all need to know more in order to provide better answers.
e.g.,
Rode size and type, and amount deployed in what depth
If all chain, what size and length snubber, if any
wave/swell when you dragged
bottom type
is it a genuine Danforth or a knock-off? If genuine, high-test or not?
Fortress size, whether it has mud pawls installed, and the fluke angle setting [i.e., set for sand or mud?]
vessel displacement
extraneous windage elements on the vessel to be considered [e.g., cockpit enclosure]
How you set and tested your anchor(s)
etc...
This is just off the top of my head- there are likely other considerations I'm not thinking of at the moment...
Assuming you have all chain or at least chain the length of your boat with appropriately sized nylon, and set the proper scope for the conditions you described [7:1 if all chain; 10:1 if combination chain rope- per Fortress and Danforth recommendations...] the the next factor is bottom type. If it was anything other than sand, then your Danforth wasn't the best anchor choice. The Fortress, with mud pawls installed, will be good in sand and mud. If the bottom was anything else, or just a thin top layer of sand or mud, or had shells and/or gravel mixed in, then your anchors were the wrong type, fouled, or too small for the prevailing conditions...
Many cruisers carry the Danforth style anchors [we have 2 Fortress FX37s among our 5 anchors...] and they are great in sand [and if Fortress with mud pawls, mud as well...] but for all around anchoring in varying bottom types, it is hard to beat the more 'modern' convex anchor types as a main bower. [I'm not going to recommend anything- there is plenty of well done testing and anecdotal information to draw from for making this determination yourself...]
Answers to the above questions will help you and the rest of us better understand what may have gone wrong and what changes might help prevent a re-occurrence...
Ever notice after a blow how hard it is breaking your anchor free? Reminds me of the summer of 71 my beetle cat how pissed my mom would get at me for taking off for days at a time. I lost two anchors that summer donations to the muddy bottom of my little hiding places on Penobscot bay. Those little danforths burying themselves unretrievable, wasn't until a car wreck unearthing that steel fence post and bucket shaped concrete ball cured my woos. A hacksaw drill and a hundred foot of line such a simple solution to the mud and rocky bottoms.
Seems to me just from observation it's not the set of the anchor if you have a good plow and a length of chain that sets you free in a big blow but the sea state. To me the closer your rhode (road) is parallel to the bottom and the better at reducing the jerking motion in the wave keeps you steadfast to mother earth.
I myself have a delta plow I think is the brand and about 20 feet of 3/8 chain and 350 feet of nylon rhode (road). I have nothing against chain it's more I'm lazy and don't have a windless that and like a bow up boat. Do think maybe a longer snuffer when the sea starts to kick and that snuffer be springy to cut down on the jerking sort of a shock absorber. When it does blow I will let out all 350, now I know your thinking what if there isn't enough room behind me if a boat is there , trust me when start letting out they will also.
Why do I have this vision of Zeehag's pleasure barge floating by with her cat on the bow licking it's lips starring at sloth in a mangrove she is dragging in a 200knot breeze?
One to either bow cleat. Feel more secure dividing the forces in half. Side benefits are less sailing at anchor and one still intact in case one fails. Have actually used a third brought back and around mast on prior boats. Run that one through anchor roller not being used.
One reason to try to leave enough chain in the locker. Always have at least another 10-15' to play with. ( with our height above water and drop to chain locker it means ~25'-30' left. Want at least 10' of snubber. With extra in reserve if snubber fails can still rig another set from the foredeck and then just let out more chain. Easy peasy.
Recall story of multiple boats lost on west coast of Mexico when snubbers failed then windlasses pulled out or chain broke. If you have no big shock loads on the chain very unlikely it will fail so snubbers are important anchoring in high winds.
One reason to try to leave 10-15' of chain left in the locker. If snubber fails can still rig a mother set from the foredeck and then just let out more chain.
We always had plenty of chain in the locker but I do like the idea of two snubbers. When a snubber broke you were woken up by the chain on the bow, two snubbers might let me sleep a bit longer!
B- not as smart as you. Learned the hard way need to leave extra chain down below. Oh well. Live and learn.
What are your feelings about chain hooks? To date have been using variation of truckers hitch but wife has trouble untying it and wants something easier. Is there a particular style you like best?
Get stainless steel, no pin. Don't get galvanised because hook on chain scrapes the galvanizing off in about 2 seconds and the damn thing starts rusting.
Other thing is to get a hook a size larger than the chain because it slips on easier
Used a chain hook on one boat. Worked fine. Most boats I would splice a stainless shackle with a pin that was small enough to go through the chain. Small extra step to undo the pin but never had one fail.
As a prior sleep neurologist will tell you the overwhelming majority of dreams are about unpleasantness. A dream about lovely ladies is a blessing even if it's your wife.
We glean much enjoyment from our tattered copy of the Sailor's Pocket Dictionary... [Now out of print... I highly recommend you grab a copy if you ever find one...]
We include that preface to make sure our friends and family understand why we consider Denali Rose to be our boat...
Your vessel name leapt at me as I kept one of the same name for ~14 years in South Central Alaska [a much appreciated, well traveled, and occasionally missed Valiant Esprit 37...]
TDW
This has nothing to do with this string or snubbers and length of chain. Just a picture of the five I'm going to go diving with down your way one of which I think you know.
This has nothing to do with this string or snubbers and length of chain. Just a picture of the five I'm going to go diving with down your way one of which I think you know.
Curious: Would a stainless steel shackle pin bend under load? I would be more comfortable using a chain hook - which is what I use. I use a braided line for the snubber. Seems to work fine. Any comments on that?
Our snubber is 15 ft 3/4 3 strand nylon from the midship cleat, then 6 ft of chain over the bow-roller, to prevent chafe, and then another 15 ft of 3/4 nylon to the chain. No hook just a rolling hitch. In hurricane Sandy I had two 30ft snubbers.
Never a problem in over 1,500 nights at anchor! Well, except for the time another boat pulled, tripped our anchor and tried to drag both of the boats into the middle of the approaches to the Panama Canal! Fortunately our 122lb Rocna anchor and 250 ft of 7/16s chain slowed everything down enough for us to sort the problem.
Biggest error we witness is lack of patience in letting the anchor set before reversing hard down on the anchor. We have had boats reverse past us at 4 knots!
Personally, I believe in one, oversized anchor vs multiple anchor points. I've been in some heavy weather at anchor solo and to have to set up secondary systems would be a nightmare. Oversized and plenty of chain and more scope than needed. I generally anchor in 5-6 ft but have 8 ft of chain on 40 ft of line.
I don't know if that's more scope than needed. How high is your bow roller off the water? If 2ft, then the vertical height off the seafloor is 7-8ft and your full 48ft of rode is 6-7x. That's just barely right for rope rode.
If your bow roller is higher than 2ft off the water (and I suspect it is) or those depths aren't at high tide, with whatever storm surge applies, it could actually be insufficient. If either the sea depth or freeboard were one foot greater, you're down to 5x, which would be low for rope.
One downside to the double snubber- when not in heavy weather invariably one side is loaded and the other not. We find significantly faster snubber wear due to rubbing on the slack chain when doubled up in less than gale force winds.
42' monohull ketch, 28,000lb displacement, 85lb Mantus on 3/8" g4, 1/2" braid for snubbers. We sail a little bit at anchor but not dramatically. Single snubbed 90% of the time, double via larks head through chain hook when things get squally.
Wonder if we don't think about the physics of this enough. Would think having SUPs lashed to the lifelines or kayaks, jugs on deck, or even dinghies up on davits would increase sharp edges,turbulence and surfaces presented to the wind.
Wonder if putting jugs in the boats wind shadow on the sugar scoop, dinghy on deck or even trailing SUPs and other water toys would decrease strain on the rode and risk of dragging. Would think anything decreasing wind resistance would help. Perhaps even dropping enclosures, large dodgers and the like may not be too extreme.
Very much appreciate gaining the wisdom offered above about anchoring technique but isn't there another side to this coin?
Every time I drag....I get a bigger anchor. I'm now up to 125lb Mantus on a 40,000 monohull. (Previous anchor was a 60lb spade, ow my secondary)
I welded attachment points at the cut water where my snubber is attached. Therefore I have no additional rise to the bow, takes 6 vertical feet out of the scope equation.
Laugh if you like, but a couple of weeks ago I watched an experienced boat guy drag rapidly past me during the night as I sat tight.
I've yet to have problems getting the anchor up, but sometimes I need patience to let it work out.
I'm still a rookie so I may yet change my strategy as I learn.
• Heavy steel weighted tip 'plow type' anchor (Spade, etc.) with entire rode of heavy chain.
• Anchor rode attached to bridle via chain hook, which pulls the connection of the bridle to the rode AT the waterline directly under the bow. This will deepen/increase the scope of the payed out rode; and, lessen the tendency of the boat to 'sail around' while at anchor. The bridle is attached to each side of the boat and 'back' from the bow .... when the bow is blowing 'off' the wind, the lee side portion of the bridle will tighten up restoring the bow to be directly into the wind .... greatly dampens the boat 'sailing about' at anchor.
• A heavy weight kellet** attached close under the bow to an all chain rode will do the same thing; but, is a pain (dangerous -IMO) to detach in 'wild' wave and wind conditions. {I no longer use/carry a kellet due to safety concerns for that reason.}
• Anchor riding sail, set to any offset of any current vs. wind direction - keeps the bow pointing 'into' the wind for less developed strain, and shock load' on the anchoring system..
• A heavy weight kellet** attached close under the bow to an all chain rode will do the same thing; but, is a pain (dangerous -IMO) to detach in 'wild' wave and wind conditions. {I no longer use/carry a kellet due to safety concerns for that reason.}
Whatever reason you have for not using a kellet is a decent one. They simply don't help in heavy weather. The best application of a kellet is to reduce the boat wandering about in very light air. Jan is a great cook and a good writer but she isn't a physicist or engineer. Here is the math: Tuning an Anchor Rode .
Stuck in mud. Was taught this when had boat with manual windlass. Still use it as windless should only be used to pick up chain/line/anchor when free.
This is slow so have patience but it works with no stress on your equipment nor danger to you. Power up to up and down. Anchor only digs in when there's a breeze so there is at least chop in the anchorage. Use chain hook or cleat off rode. Chop and boat rising and falling will work anchor loose. Pick up smal amount of slack. Wait and repeat until free.
DONT dive to free anchor. You could drown.
Other trick if lodged in rock crevice or under junk. Launch dinghy. Then dive and attach line near anchor or on anchor if you can. Go back to dinghy. Use dinghy power to free anchor. ( attach line to engine or real strong point. Especially important if using RIB. Don't use handles. Use floating line,). Need at least three people to work. One at helm so chain to boat is slack, one at windlass and one in dinghy. Once again you are not underwater pulling on anchor so no risk.
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