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PS 34 Haul out Maintenance

5K views 20 replies 5 participants last post by  Windrunner 
#1 · (Edited)
I could find no stuffing in the fitting found at the top of the rudder shaft tube.

Should stuffing be inserted between the two flanges?

Is there some other type of stuffing used in this type of flange?

When the shaft is inserted, stuffing could be wrapped tightly around it and held in place by tightening up the fittings. Further tightening of the flange should force the stuffing to the rudder shaft and seal the fitting.

Windrunner has been converted from wheel to tiller. The rudder shaft tube extends up to the engine compartment. The hose in the picture is clamped onto the end of the tube. The quadrant for the auto helm attaches to the rudder shaft just above the bronze fitting. The rudder shaft then extends into a glass tube between the cockpit floor and the aft seat. There is a bearing attached to the top of the seat and the tiller is attached to the rudder shaft just above this bearing.

Again I would appreciate any insight(s)

Starting this thread to un-hijack Kenin's thread!

regards charlie
 
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#2 · (Edited)
I could find no stuffing in the fitting found at the top of the rudder shaft tube.

Should stuffing be inserted between the two flanges?

Is there some other type of stuffing used in this type of flange?

When the shaft is inserted, stuffing could be wrapped tightly around it and held in place by tightening up the fittings. Further tightening of the flange should force the stuffing to the rudder shaft and seal the fitting.

Windrunner has been converted from wheel to tiller. The rudder shaft tube extends up to the engine compartment. The hose in the picture is clamped onto the end of the tube. The quadrant for the auto helm attaches to the rudder shaft just above the bronze fitting. The rudder shaft then extends into a glass tube between the cockpit floor and the aft seat. There is a bearing attached to the top of the seat and the tiller is attached to the rudder shaft just above this bearing.

Again I would appreciate any insight(s)

Starting this thread to un-hijack Kenin's thread!

regards charlie
Hi Charlie,

A tiller installation from the factory doesn't require a stuffing box since there is a fiberglass tube starting from the hull and going up through the deck. However, since it was a conversion, it looks like they left everything below decks like it would be with a wheel installation. Yes, there should be some packing in the fitting. Mine just had a single piece. I think it was 5/16 in my case, but I have to double check next time I'm at the boat (I have a piece left over as a spare).

Actually, I was looking for a picture, but I found a video that I shot as I put in the packing. It was 5/16" packing for my boat. I'm uploading the video to Youtube and will update this post with a link once it's posted. Here's a brief video from my installation:
 
#3 ·
Hey Bill:
That is the same fitting. It took me a couple of times looking at the video to figure out that your rudder post/shaft is hollow. I could / can see clearly see what to do to replace the stuffing.

Now awaiting parts to start reassembly of both drive train and steering units. Going with a rebuilt starter and new alternator also.

BTW I did not replace the inspection ports.

Thanks for the video and the information particularly on mounting the quadrant.

regards charlie
 
#4 ·
Hey Bill:
That is the same fitting. It took me a couple of times looking at the video to figure out that your rudder post/shaft is hollow. I could / can see clearly see what to do to replace the stuffing.

Now awaiting parts to start reassembly of both drive train and steering units. Going with a rebuilt starter and new alternator also.

BTW I did not replace the inspection ports.

Thanks for the video and the information particularly on mounting the quadrant.

regards charlie
Sorry that the video wasn't too well done. I mainly shot it for my own reference. I try to document most of the maintenance and repairs that I do with photos and video. Memory isn't what it used to be, actually it was never very good to begin with :)

Since you already have limited access to the area, I hope that you'll be able to get back to the quadrant and post through the engine space. I'm just a shade to inflexible to quite make it all the way back there, almost, but not quite.

While you're doing work back there, you might consider a small inspection port at the aft end of the pilot berth on the starboard side. I added one so that I will be able to more easily reach the two seacocks for the cockpit drains. Since my start battery is aft of the engine, it made it virtually impossible to reach those seacocks.
 
#5 · (Edited)
MY MISTAKE!

There is stuffing at the top of the rudder post flange. I cleaned the green stuff off of the fitting and discovered that there was one row of flax stuffing compressed into the top of the fitting. The manual specifies 3/8, I think, but cannot not find the reference at the moment, but it may be 5/16. (edit: It is in fact 5/16...that was another trip to WM.)

It pays to clean stuff up before putting it back on!

Thanks again for the advice and insight.

regard charlie
 
#6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by deisher.6@suddenlink.net View Post
Our fill fittings are the same as the winches fittings so we use winch handles open them.
My deck fills are also opened with a winch handle. The third wrench, the funny looking crow's foot wrench, fits the nut on the threaded part of the deck fill fitting underneath the boat's deck. It came in handy when removing and re-caulking the rear tank fill. The bottom side of it is in a bear of a place behind the electrical panel. A socket wrench ratchet, an extension and this wrench will turn the nut.

Bill

Hey Bill:
Do your deck fill fittings have just a nut on the back? From the top sides the fill fittings on our PS 34 have four bolts. Is there a nut as well? The forward water tank fill has a very slow leak. Checking it out initially 3 months ago and again today, I did not feel a nut on the fitting Just the four bolts. It is on the long list for repair.

There has been a leak and still might be above the electrical panel. It could be from the scupper? Just fixed a major leak from the port scupper. The hose runs through the cabinet behind the oven. The hose had degraded enough so that it cracked to the touch. The bilge was dry yesterday!! after replacing the hose and 2.5+ inches of rain.

Again thanks for your advice.

regards charlie
 
#9 · (Edited)
Hi Charlie,

I know that this question is directed to the other Bill, but I thought I'd try to help out as well. I have a fill fitting that is like yours. There is no nut on the bottom. It has four screws (if I remember correctly they are wood screws and not bolts) that secure it to the deck. Mine was leaking. I had to fill in the old screw holes with epoxy and redrill and rebed the fitting.

While I was at it, I changed the hose as well. The photo below is before any of the work. I used Raritan Sanitation hose to replace the water fill (I called Raritan and they confirmed that the hose could be used for potable water). It was a bit of a pain to replace, but I figured that something as important as fresh water, I needed to take extra care.

I too had a ruined scupper drain line on the port side (although he starboard side seems to be alright). The change there was relatively easy.
 

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#7 ·
It has been years since I removed and re-bedded the aft water tank fill, and I think after mulling it over that you are right; there is no ring on the underside of the fitting. My memory just goes back and forth.

From behind the electrical panel, the hose had to come off the adapter, the adapter had to come off the fitting, and the nuts and washers had to come off the screws. After the screws and fitting had been removed, cleaned up, re-caulked, and reinstalled, everything on the inside had to go back. Dropped nuts and washers and fingers sticky with extruded caulk made the first part of the re-installation a pain. I think the wrench I made made may have been used to tighten the adapter onto the fitting which of course put a counter torque on the fitting threatening the just completed caulking job. Finally, KY jelly and a hot air gun helped to refit the stiff hose on the adapter. It was a job in the confining space.

Bill Murdoch
1988 PSC 34
Irish Eyes
 
#10 ·
It has been years since I removed and re-bedded the aft water tank fill, and I think after mulling it over that you are right; there is no ring on the underside of the fitting. My memory just goes back and forth.

From behind the electrical panel, the hose had to come off the adapter, the adapter had to come off the fitting, and the nuts and washers had to come off the screws. After the screws and fitting had been removed, cleaned up, re-caulked, and reinstalled, everything on the inside had to go back. Dropped nuts and washers and fingers sticky with extruded caulk made the first part of the re-installation a pain. I think the wrench I made made may have been used to tighten the adapter onto the fitting which of course put a counter torque on the fitting threatening the just completed caulking job. Finally, KY jelly and a hot air gun helped to refit the stiff hose on the adapter. It was a job in the confining space.

Bill Murdoch
1988 PSC 34
Irish Eyes
Sorry Bill. I posted my previous post without seeing your post above. Yes, it is a real ordeal access that space.
 
#11 ·
Hey Bill(s):
Again Thanks for the advice. When the time comes I am ready to fix leaks from scuppers and deck fills. Hopefully later than sooner.

Tomorrow with the help of a mechanic, hope to reassemble drive train, then Tuesday the rudder and associated parts. The auto pilot is a Raymarine Type 2S (I thought it was a type 25 until it was pulled and I could get the bifocals focused ion it). I may take it to a dealer for preventative maintenance before reinstalling it. The starboard cockpit hatch has been adsorbing water through unsealed hinge bolt holes. The 3/4 inch plywood was half rotted when exposed. With the repaired hatch installed I should be back in the water and sailin' by next weekend.

Going to replace the brittle scupper hoses while back there. Hope that gives my slim neighbor more room to hook up the quadrant!


I will post some thoughts and pictures of the mizzen soon.

Thanks again.

regards charlie
 
#12 ·
Windrunner is reassembled and back in the water. Thank you all for your advice and patience. I learned a bunch about the boat to include:
-With the factory conversion from wheel to tiller the rudder post tube does not extend through to the cockpit. The PO had a linear drive autohelm installed under the deck that required a steering arm to be attached to the rudder post under the deck. So there is a quadrant like assembly and a stuffing box on the rudder shaft.

-Best advice ever was to adjust the stuffing box before installing the quadrant.

-After my thin neighbor was nauseated by heat and being cramped trying to reinstall the quadrant, we looked for other ways of completing the task. We were able to accomplish everything through the two 6" inspection ports. It was relatively comfortable to stand in the engine compartment and reattach the autohelm through the hatch covering the opening where the pedestal was mounted.

-A short list of stuff accomplished during this first haul out:
-replacing alternator (old one didn’t alt from saltwater damage) Good that I had a new set of batteries.
-rebuilding starter
-repairing two internally and externally leaking cockpit hatches that were weeping brown water .
-replacing hatch that covers hole in deck for old wheel steering (repairing cockpit floor around inproperly installed old hatch)
-dropping rudder & pulling shaft & cleaning stuffing box
-rebuilding shaft seal (This was an economic decision. I had purchased a DSS rebuild kit would prefer an old fashion stuffing box, and will
install one at a later date.)
-replacing cutlass bearing
-replacing engine mounts / aligning drive shaft
-removing and inspecting linear drive on auto helm
-painting and recaulking rub rail
-calking outside of rail cap
-replacing missing screw bungs and bowties
-balancing shaft and collar

After launching , unwrapped the fiberglass insulation from the exhaust manifold to the injection loop. As expected along with the salt water damage elsewhere in the engine compartment, it was badly rusted. Not critical, it is at the top of the fixit list.

Now back on the water I will take some pictures of the mizzen and its rigging. It serves as a mount for a wind generator and the radar. The radar presently does not work (or I cannot get it to work) and I am not sure about the wind generator. The mizzen boom does interfere with the Monitor self steering which I am interested in getting to work. I need to sail some to figure out what is best for me.

Bill, where do You keep Irish Eyes? Windrunner is tied up at Duck Creek.

Thanks again.

regards charlie
 
#14 ·
Northwest Creek Marina.

I'm coming down tomorrow to do the hurricane prep work.


Hey Bill: Stopped by Fairfield today around 1230-1330. Irish Eyes is a nice looking boat. Liked the solid vang and the bars on your boarding gates you fabricated, bars on the lower shrouds, also liked how you store your running backstays. Hope to meet up sometime.

regards charlie
 
#15 ·
While I was in New Bern getting Irish Eyes ready for Florence, I took a look at the bottom side of the aft water tank fill. I have a bronze nut, bolts, and washer along with bronze wood screws holding the fitting down. The bolt is on the side where the fitting just overlaps the depression in the deck. There is no threaded ring below. The special wrench I made fits the white plastic hose adapter.

 
#16 ·
Hey Bill:
Again thanks for the scoop.
Hope that Florence treated you kindly.

Chose to leave Windrunner in her slip at Duck Creek. Turned out to be a good choice as most to the boats that were hauled floated off of their stands. Sadly at least 10 boats from Bridgeton are ashore on the New Bern side of the Neuse including a Catalina 40.

Spent three days aboard tending lines. Great opportunity to find out where all those leaking fittings are located. Really appreciate the strength inherent in the construction of a PS34.

regards charlie
 
#18 ·
Hey Bill:
Again thanks for the scoop.
Hope that Florence treated you kindly.

Chose to leave Windrunner in her slip at Duck Creek. Turned out to be a good choice as most to the boats that were hauled floated off of their stands. Sadly at least 10 boats from Bridgeton are ashore on the New Bern side of the Neuse including a Catalina 40.

Spent three days aboard tending lines. Great opportunity to find out where all those leaking fittings are located. Really appreciate the strength inherent in the construction of a PS34.

regards charlie
I have a couple of small scratches in my teak cap rail. They are minor. You could cover them with your hand. I have no other damage. However, several boats on the other side of my dock escaped when the Pilemate sleeves (installed this summer) that their stern lines were tied to came off the tops of the piles. (Pile Protection | Sag Harbor NY) Eight of the boats were trapped on top of the dock when the water level came back down. The dock behind me had a similar problem.

Bill Murdoch
I'm very happy to hear that you both made it through with minimal damage. I worry about my boat constantly when the wind and waves rise up a bit on Erie, but that's nothing compared to a full out hurricane. I went through a couple down on the Gulf coast, but that was in my pre-Crealock days.
 
#17 ·
I have a couple of small scratches in my teak cap rail. They are minor. You could cover them with your hand. I have no other damage. However, several boats on the other side of my dock escaped when the Pilemate sleeves (installed this summer) that their stern lines were tied to came off the tops of the piles. (Pile Protection | Sag Harbor NY) Eight of the boats were trapped on top of the dock when the water level came back down. The dock behind me had a similar problem.

Bill Murdoch
 
#19 ·
Bill, I'm happy to hear the damage is only minor, it could have been much worse and was for a lot of people. Hopefully the scratches aren't too deep. While we don't get many hurricanes this far north, my mooring has northeastern exposure and I worry about nor'easters late in the season.
 
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