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Seahawk Bottom Paint - **UCKS!

10K views 86 replies 20 participants last post by  Don L 
#1 ·
I applied 3 gals of Seahawk CuKote and 1 gal of SeaHawk BioCop to my hull between Feb 8-13, 2019. Now it is only April 21, 2019 and I have barnacles all over the hull! So that's 2 months and 1 week on $980 worth on what is suppose to be their upper end and best bottom paints.

While they have a warranty, it is written so it would never cover a DIYer. So even though I send them a comment I expect nothing and even if they covered it, it still would be completely unacceptable.

JUst thought I would share.
 
#2 ·
Why two different types? I don't think that had anything to do with performance, though - just curious.

Frankly, we haven't found many paints that work worth a crap South of North Carolina, and almost none that work South of Florida.

The exceptions are Micron 66, which holds up for a year, and can be stretched to two years - but it is so soft it goes away very quickly. The last paint we used was Ameron ABC3, bought from a local PPG paint store, and cost $90/gal. This has been the second best paint we have ever used in the tropics, and the only one in the US I will apply now. The best paint is found in the Caribe, but is illegal in most other places. It really works, but I won't say any more because our resident hull cleaner here will get his panties in a wad and make us listen to him rant.

Other than these exceptions, every other paint we have used has performed like you are experiencing.

The boat we recently bought came with CopperCoat. So far, I'm not impressed, and fear painting is in our future again.

Mark
 
#4 ·
Only been in Marathon for 11 days

2 paints because a gal Cukote can be “boosted” with a pint of the BioCop. The Cukote has higher copper and I like that for the long term. Due to pricing it was better to just buy a gal of the higher end BioCop, which left a lot of it after the boosting. So the last coat, the one the barnacles are growing on, is just BioCop.

I checked with seahawk prior and they said this was fine to do.
 
#6 ·
Maybe pause the hate button...and see
What?????

Brand new paint that has grown the pox in a month.

Btw - I've been here before for 3 months with paint that was 2 years old at the time. It grew grass but no pox
 
#7 ·
He does have a point. We have experienced very bad growth before on newish paint in a particular area, only to scrape it off, move to a different location, and have no more trouble with it for the rest of its life. The same location could have different growth behaviors over time. I'll join you in hating SeaHawk paint if it keeps up this record as you move around.

Mark
 
#8 ·
We had Sea Hawk professionally applied 2 years in a row, thinking we had just got a bad batch the first year. Six or 7 weeks and the growth started both times. Contacted the company and they offered us 3 gallons of free paint; the same paint that didn't work.
Fought with them for 2 years and finally gave up, but I have been trying to warn folks that the products from Sea Hawk aren't at all good and the company won't stand behind their products. Check the Grenada Cruisers Facebook page for lots of horror stories about Sea Hawk. Not too many positive reviews over the last 7 years!
Sorry, you had to learn this way. Warn others.
 
#13 ·
The types and amounts of fouling organisms vary with location. So each pain will vary in its effectiveness, depending on location. We used Sea Hawk Talon and after 20 months on the coast of Georgia, there was almost no growth on the bottom. We used Cukote on our last haulout. It's supposed to be even better. Hoping it works as well.
 
#14 · (Edited)
So the Western Florida rep asked me "Please explain your process in cleaning your boat."

I don't really understand what this has to do with the new paint allowing hard growth in the 2 weeks it had been since I had last looked.

But, I told him it wouldn't wipe/rub off and it took a scraper to get the growth off.
 
#16 · (Edited)
So the Western Florida rep asked me "Please explain your process in cleaning your boat."

I don't really understand what this has to do with the new paint allowing hard growth in the 2 weeks it had been since I had last looked.
He's looking for a way to blame you for the paint's poor performance. And while I do not care for Sea Hawk Paint's products or business practices, I do like this from their website. The most reasonable and realistic anti fouling paint maintenance recommendations I have found from any paint manufacturer:

Rules to Stick to for Underwater Hull Cleaning and Maintenance

To maintain your bottom paint's performance and to stretch the time between haul-outs for applying new bottom painting, regular cleaning of your boat's hull should be performed on a monthly basis. You will also benefit with better fuel efficiency when your hull bottom is kept smooth and clean. All things considered, it's easy to see how regular hull cleanings can save you a significant amount of money over the course of time.

Best Practices for Underwater Hull Cleaning and Maintenance

● Clean gently to avoid removing too much paint.
● It is best to wait 60 days before the first cleaning after having a hard antifouling paint applied.
● Use the least abrasive material available; soft sponge, pieces of carpet.
● Use harder more abrasive cleaning pads only when hard growth needs to be removed.
● If the hull is still clean after 30 days, do not clean the entire hull; do the waterline, running gear and propeller only.
● Do not sand or chip hull paint underwater.
● If you can't do these regular cleanings yourself, hire a professional hull cleaning company.

https://www.seahawkpaints.com/underwater-hull-cleaning-maintenance/
 
#17 ·
"Rules to Stick to for Underwater Hull Cleaning and Maintenance

To maintain your bottom paint’s performance and to stretch the time between haul-outs for applying new bottom painting, regular cleaning of your boat’s hull should be performed on a monthly basis. You will also benefit with better fuel efficiency when your hull bottom is kept smooth and clean. All things considered, it’s easy to see how regular hull cleanings can save you a significant amount of money over the course of time."

If this is truly on the Sea Hawk website, why would anyone ever buy their paint? They are flat chat telling you their paint doesn't work. I wish I'd had the foresight to go to the website before I bought their garbage paint if this was on the website in 2013!
As for Coppercoat, I've heard so many conflicting reports from those who have it that I'm not willing to spend 5 or 6 grand on that bottom job.
Years ago I bought an electric hookah rig, anticipating the fact that antifouling paint no longer does what we pay so much money for; antifouling! At least this year we only spent around us$7.50 a gallon for antifouling paint that is working better than the Sea Hawk ever did (@ around us$300.00 a gallon), and as well as any paint anyone I've talked to down here has tried.
It seems there are quite a few paints out there available for around us$100.00, that work as poorly as any of the expensive antifouling paints, so why is anyone still spending money on the expensive stuff? I'm almost of a mind to just put a high gloss epoxy paint on the bottom, wax the cr*p out of it and leave it at that. At least it would be really easy to clean and not have to be repainted every year or two.
 
#24 ·
Using Micron 66. There have been numerous changes in formulations in most all brands with resultant poorer performace. Bought extra micron 2 1/2 years ago. Kept unopened in very cool place. Also was given packets of a tin additive. So far so good. Problem has been running gear and bow thruster. Nothing works. So run the bow thruster at anchor time to time. Think most important thing for any ablative paint is to sail the boat. From what I’ve seen and heard the water based paints are worthless, black and red are better than white or light blue with ablative and nothing prevents slime if the boat is still.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Also was given packets of a tin additive.

From what I've seen and heard the water based paints are worthless, black and red are better than white or light blue with ablative and nothing prevents slime if the boat is still.
A couple quick comments on that, they are paints that use water as a solvent and not water based. We have been getting really good feed back on the water soluble paints. It is my understanding that they tend to carry and disburse the antibiotic based anti-fouling (SR) materials better than their alkyd cousins. Also for what its worth, it is my understanding adding tin to bottom paint (except for very specific excepted cases) is illegal in the U.S. and Europe since its adding a heavy metal to the water. In terms of color, according to the paint manufacturers Black does the worst of all bottom paint colors. Red is often thought to do best since the manufacturers can add more copper without it showing and so you could only buy the highest copper content material in red. Now a days you can buy blue or green with the same copper content and they perform about the same as red. White is specialty color that does not conceal as large a copper content and so does not fair as well because there is generally less copper in it. But because it is white, you are also more aware of any fouling so the racers liked to use it since the divers could in theory do a better job because they could better see what they were doing.

Jeff
 
#28 ·
When we sailed on Barnegat Bay I started out with Interlux ablative because that's what the yard used when we bought her. We got three years out of it for six years total.

I tried Petrit Hydrocoat and got three years out of it as well. When we hauled out the second season it was showing a little more wear around the water line and leading edges than the Interlux so I touched it up.

The last year I had that boat I tried Sea Hawk at the recommendation of a local shop. I was shocked at how bad it was after one short season where the boat didn't even get all that much use. The hull needed to be completely redone after one season.

I would never use Sea Hawk products again.

The prep and application was the same for all three paints. The bottom was pressure washed when we hauled. The old paint was scuffed with a sanding screen, then washed to remove the dust. Two coats of paint on the hull, and a third coat along the water line and the leading edges of the bow and keel.
 
#29 ·
The latest email for the Seahawk rep:

"
Ray Surdyk
5:43 PM (1 hour ago)
So you don’t clean your hull on a monthly basis?"

You can see where this is going. Guess it means nothing to them that this was new paint mid Feb. Left mostly fresh brackish water Mar 8 with a clean hull. STILL had a clean hull in Palm Beach on 4/5. On 4/15, 1/3 of the boat had hard growth.
 
#31 ·
You do that. 14 months ago I stayed in Boot Key for 3 months on 2 year old Interlux CSC paint. Not 1 single pox!!!!! Yes these was soft growth, but no hard growth.

But even if you find pox on other boats: A company's top bottom paint that is only 2 months old, and that was clean just 10 days prior, shouldn't have 1/4" pox on 1/3 of the boat in 10 days!

spin it any way you what, 1/3 of boat had pox in 10 days
 
#32 ·
Clean your bottom once a month? This sounds like they're pitching this stuff like a status symbol. "Look, I can afford both the crappy $300/gal paint AND the diver to clean my bottom off once a month". Sort of like being wealthy enough to own a Jaguar in the 80s and be able to afford to have it in the shop 180 days of the year.
 
#34 ·
Thanks Jeff good to know. Of interest that hasn’t been my experience with red. Know if black is put on the hard for awhile it turns a bit dusty red.probably the copper I would think. Had red fail badly enough to justify a short haul. Several friends have used the no voc paints and switched back. Maybe that’s a sampling error difference between case report and a true study.
We’re not in US nor European waters. I wonder what’s now put on steel ships and naval vessels. Always thought all the pleasure craft in the world is just a small drop in the bucket and of minimal impact compared with them. Can’t get tin now so that’s a thing of the past. One and done.
What I’m not understanding is if the label says 66% Cu doesn’t it contain 66% Cu? Also what’s the effective time the antibiotics are truly cidal? Cu is Copper for ever. Antibiotics degrade with time especially when not in storage. Personally think I’ve observed this with slimocides but again just a single case report. At present think the best one can do is a high copper content paint and sail the boat as well as moor where there’s some movement to the water when not sailing. We left the boat in Rodney to come home for a few weeks. Had to have it cleaned before leaving. Since then have been in open bays or sailing and no issues except running gear. Will take to securing a thick black bag over the prop next time it’s going to sit still for awhile. Think that maybe better than propspeed. Think propspeed is best on motor vessels. Think the petit spray cans work better on sailboats and it’s a lot less work.
 
#35 ·
I disagree. I've found Propspeed to be a superior product when applied and prepped carefully.

The Chessie where we are is a high growth area. The ZINC crap...especially the Petit seemed to be a barnicle MAGNET. I've gotten at least two solid years with Propspeed. It needs to be handled very carefully by a
Diver also. Basically leave it alone.

As far a paints used by large commercial vessels. At least a few cruise lines use the Ultima 60 we use.

We just had our boat shorthauled this week to wax the hull and put on a bootstripe.

Going on year three for the Ultima 60' though this I will it's last year, as the red first layer has polished off and we are down to the blue

The hull was spotless after the spray off

The prop after 1 year of Propspeed was clean as a whistle.

Both products are expensive . I wait till I find deals or 25% off on sites all year long to buy my next coat to defray their expense.
 
#37 ·
Soft growth starts almost immediately with CopperCoat. Plan on wiping it down at least every month, but maybe every couple of weeks, depending where you are. For comparison, we have our other boat with 3yr old inexpensive paint on it right next to this one with Coppercoat. The cheap 3yr old paint has not been touched in a year, and it has a moderately heavy slime layer on it below water and nothing on the waterline. No hard growth that I can see, and no weeds.

In contrast, the Coppercoat bottom, which has been here only 1 month, and arrived with a completely clean bottom (was on the hard after being professionally applied and was burnished before launch following CC's instructions) has 6" of long weed growing all around the waterline, and heavy slime and weed growth below water. I suspect it also has some barnacles now, but the heavy weed prevents me from seeing much underwater.

The couple of people I know that have CC in warm water also have this experience. They told me to plan on cleaning the bottom every few weeks.

So far, the only good points about it is that it is easy to clean because you can go at it with vigor, and once clean, it is glass smooth and hard - making for a faster boat.

Mark
 
#41 ·
Thanks Mark. The pictures say a lot!

The boat with CC I am familiar with also has issues but it is currently being put down to 'poor application'.

The idea of not having to repaint antifoul every 18 months appealed to me, but we will be in warm water ( Med - Caribbean- Pacific) and i'm not sure it is worth the money and the hassle.
 
#39 ·
We don’t use the engine much but when used may be on for a long time. Think this is the wrong way to use a boat for propspeed to do its thing. Prop needs to spin to get things off. Whereas the petit can work a bit even when the screw isn’t spinning. Thing with petit is to really rough the prop up so it will stick.
We got hard growth. Taking it off (used a thumb nail) think coating came off. Then just as bad as bare metal.never did much on the shaft. Friends with motor vessels had better luck.
 
#40 ·
the lesson that is starting to become accepted to my brain is:

- expensive bottom paint is just a waste of time
- get the "cheap stuff and apply more coats
- use the money save to buy a hookah system and just clean the bottom every month
 
#43 ·
I think the lesson is that using antifouling paint is for chumps. But one must use some type of antifoul, so the question becomes whether one is a chump with more money in his pocket at the end of the day.

The dignity line is whether the antifouling job costs less then just hiring a diver to scrub the boat every few weeks.

One would be surprised if they calculated this.

Mark
 
#42 ·
I dont know where you can find non biased cintrolled tests.
A costs 1 and A plus costs 1x2. A plus performs 10% or 100% better in lab tests under Y cinditions...but no better or worse than A in other than Y.

Its a maintenance thing...not plug play forget and always smile.

$300ish a gal should be offered on your knees asking for her hand....
 
#47 ·
Bottom paint for many of us....well actually the majority of SN , is a different commodity than the cruisers like Mark / Don who may have their boats year round in more temperate growth producing waters. Obviously they are retired and spending a day cleaning their boat isn’t big thing. To many/ most of us we don’t want to waste our limited boating time diving and wiping. Bit the majority of us don’t operate our vessels that way.

For many SN boaters, the season is short and for a lot of the many , they pull their boats to the hard in the winter. Most of them don’t need Hukkas. Since their boats are out of the waters for many months , an inexpensive effective bottom paint is a good answer. There ARE some reasonably effective ones on the market.

The Ultimate 60 I use is singularly expensive but on sale and the fact that it lasts at least 2 seasons, the cost per year really isn’t that much compared to a diver who charges at least $100 a dive. ( BTW we do use a diver in the middle of our season as our boat is kept in the water 2 years at least in a row. ) . We have also used Micron Extra and Micron 66 with good results in the past, but our experience is that the 60% copper in Ultimate 60 meets our needs and get this Mark...ITS COST EFFECTIVE.

With the current trend of protecting the environment there may come a day that divers are not allowed to dive on boats in slips in marinas also.
 
#49 ·
Bottom paint for many of us....well actually the majority of SN , is a different commodity than the cruisers like Mark / Don

For many SN boaters, the season is short and for a lot of the many , they pull their boats to the hard in the winter.
Actually I believe that's completely wrong overall. Except for the small part of the country from the Chesapeake north, boats stay in the water all year long.

But I'm not really interested in the different types of cruising/boating people do. This thread is simple in what it's about:

Seahawks top of the line paint had hard growth 2 months after being applied. Once the boat got out of a brackish water area hard growth occurred in less than 2 weeks.

Currently I'm the Chump that spend money on the "better top of the line paint".
 
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