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Looking for input and suggestions

3K views 20 replies 9 participants last post by  blt2ski 
#1 ·
I know this topic can be beat to death looking for "the perfect boat" I know it does not exist and the only way to narrow the focus is to decide what you want the boat for. So here is my question, we are looking for a 38-45ft monohaul boat no more than 5 years old. It will be used as a liveaboard for 6 months of the year with myself, wife and one child. We are not worried to much about performance but what we are searching for is the safest, most comfotable (roomy min 6'6 height and large salon) boat that performs at average or above. The majority of time will be at anchor/marina but voyages will need to be made and Im looking for something that could handle moderate to large seas if encountered without posing a safety issue. All I would like to know is your opinion..if you were us looking at these parameters do any boats jump out at you that you would recommend. Also our budget is up to $250,000. I just value a lot of different opinions and their justifications as a referance. Perhaps someone will recommend a boat I have not even considered.

Looking forward to your answers.
 
#2 ·
The 6' 6" height is going to be a limitation. Also, if you're looking to liveaboard for six-months a year, you should also make sure that the berths are long enough to fit your height. In some cases, a boat has the head room, but the berths aren't long enough for people who require the headroom.

At that size range, your selection is going to be limited a bit by your budget IMHO. I would also highly recommend taking about 15-20% of your boat buying budget and reserve it for re-fitting, repairing and upgrading what ever boat you do eventually buy.

What area of the world are you going to be sailing in? You don't say.
 
#3 ·
Me, my wife, and child (and 2 dogs) lived on a Catalina 38 and are now about to go back to Florida and cruise again on a new Catalina 400. I have two children now, but just one dog.

My suggestion is to buy a production boat like a Catalina, Bene, or Jeauneau. Their focus is on the interior volume and comfort. Most offshore boats are much more saftey oriented and considerably smaller in volume.

I really don't know that there is that much of a difference in quality of any of the production boats named above. They are all about the same, price included. Just find the one that fits you best. I like Catalina because it has a very good owners group, it is American made (parts, etc), holds its value well, and is more traditional in its rigging (versus a Hunter, for instance). I like Jeauneau and Beneteau's too, but their interior is more of a European flavor that I have never really got into.

Catalina makes a solid boat and we have put many, many miles on them and been in bad storms well offshore. In fact, I am going to drop my 400 in the Texas coast soon and punch across the pond to Florida. So, you can make good offshore runs with the boat... but there are better ones if very distant shores are on your itinerary.

There are my thoughts. Others will agree/dissagree. Write or PM with and questions.

Thanks.

- CD
 
#4 ·
Your opinion is exactly what Im looking for. I hope others will agree or disagree. I have have heard of Hunters history but of recent there seems to much improvment. ie Hunter 38 was a boat of the year for that catagory in 04?? I do like the idea of in mast furling but it does also have cons like if it gets jammed,,having to unfurl to lower the sail etc. I have been reading a bunch on Hunters new Centre Cockpit 45..seems the CC idea promotes much improved room below. Catalina I always hear as a good name overall do you know if they make a CC model or any feedback on that design. Sailing will mostly be coastal and some occasional trips through the carib. Does the B and R rigging on hunter produce any safety issues?
 
#6 ·
The Morgan(s) are center cockpits, but they are not their most popular models. Do you want a CC? That is what you have to ask yourself. They have a lot of tradeoffs (both good and bad).

Again, I would buy a Catalina over a Hunter, so I will not go there. I AM NOT BEATING UP HUNTER! Please, no nasty PM's. It is just my personal preference. But Catalina makes a very good boat for the money. Period. I would not spend my money at the price range on another boat. But you do not have to buy a 40 either. We were very please with our Catalina 380 and as I said before, we through some really nasty storms. We had one boat travelling with us that took a breaker into his cockpit and he was a 42 foot center cockpit! The 387 is a nice boat and I seriously considered it over the 400... but instead went with the 400 because I did not like the changes they made to the 387 Nav Station. There are many 380s around in your price range. They are a heavy boat and take a beating, but a little slow. The 400 is much faster (and I do not mean by waterline length) more sure-footed boat. If you do elect for a 380, steer clear of the tall rig as it make the boat very tender.

Other boats that are good too are Sabres, Long Range Cruisers (I was impressed with the 40 I went on), and Island Packets. However, these may push your budget a bit and I don't think they are that much better (if any) than a Catalina (Man, now I am really sounding like a Catalina owner!!).

In the end, it is what you like. Look at resale & talk to other owners. I wrote a post under the Cruising Forum a few days ago about Cruising with Kids. I went through a number of steps to go through when shopping for a boat when you are going to cruise with kiddos. It would be worth your time reading through it as you have to have different concerns on boats when you have kids.

If you have a lot of specific questions, please feel free to PM me and I can be a bit more honest than I will in an open forum. Hope this helps.

Fair winds.

- CD
 
#7 ·
The B and R rig was first used by Hunter on Hunter's Child, a racing boat. Though I only had a 26, I never had any problems with the B and R rig. Now, I keep whacking my head on the backstay of my current boat.

CD....when you heading out? You going across the Gulf, or through the ditch?
 
#8 ·
There is no improvement in Hunter. I chartered a 45CC in the BVI's and you would be well served by adifferent boat! Unfortunately Bene's center cockpits are too short for you. Catalina doesn't make any centercockpits but their deck salon Morgan440 might be a good choice for you.
I would recommend a mid-90's center cockpit Hylas 46 or a Caliber 47 as being even better choices but I understand that you might not want to consider something that old. They are WAY better boats and if you find one in good shape, they will also hold value better than the other boats noted.
http://www.caliberyacht.com/Models_47_Main_Window.htm
http://www.catalinayachts.com/yachts.cfm?act=model&id=74
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatDetails.jsp?currency=USD&units=Feet&currencyid=100&boat_id=1334707&checked_boats=1334707&back=%2Fcore%2Flisting%2Fcache%2FsearchResults.jsp%3Fsm%3D3%26toLength%3D46%26cit%3Dtrue%26currencyid%3D100%26luom%3D126%26fromLength%3D46%26man%3Dhylas%26slim%3Dquick&searchtype=
 
#9 ·
pb,

I am still outfitting the boat, hope to be done by January. I have not finalized the punchout date yet because everytime I set a date, something kicks it back. Best guess now is 1st qtr next year, probably March. Of course, the worst storm I ever faced in the Gulf was in March... so we will see. As far as the course, pretty much looks like straight across. I think I will change it some though and maybe point for the Tortugas and do a bit of diving and snorkeling down there.

What's your timeframe, PB?

Cam, Hylas is an awesome boat, especially the 54. Hallberg-Rassy too. Probably my two favorite of the late models. Old Masons are really good... but we are getting off the price ranges & age he discussed.

For Coastal cruising, some offshore, Bahamas, a small family, 250k or less, less than 5 years old, ... go with a Catalina. Again, just my opinion, but I did... at least until I buy my 72 foot Nordhavn, BABY!
 
#11 ·
CD - heading out Sunday morning....finally. Will either go outside to Sabine Lake and then the ditch, or just start from Galveston. Decided a trip cross the Gulf would not be a good first offshore passage for a singlehander. Besides, if I don't do the ditch now, I never will, and I would like to see it once.

Hylas and Caliber are both nice boats. I'd agree with Cam on the Hunter CC's as well, though their aft cockpit boats are looking pretty good. Seen a couple of 41's here, and they seemed to be doing nicely.
 
#13 ·
Longwater-,

I am not trying to get into a pissing contest, but I would like to come out and comment on your statement. There are several boat manufacturers whose boats I think are junk... but I try not to outwardly criticize them in an open forum becasue there are many people that read these dicsussions that own these boats and have saved and spent everything they have to get there. Restrain your antipathy in a PM, especially when it is not first hand and not true.

I have had my Catalina 380 out in more storms and made more passages offshore than most IP's have left the dock. Your comments are quite false, since I have done it and been there. I cannot comment on Hunters as my research is not as first hand, but Beneteaus makes a fine boat too, as does Jeauneau (at least, in what they were primarily designed for).

I have only seen one boat really do poorly offshore... but I will not mention it here. He survived the storm and has put more miles under his keel than I have.

Thus, if you are doing a lot of offshore work, yes... there are better boats built: Valiant, the old Masons, a Taswell or Hylas are some of my favorites. However, the cost and space tradeoffs are considerable. But to say that a Catalina cannot go offshore is absolutely not true. I am about to cut across the gulf from Houston to the Tortugas in my Catalina 400... about 6-8 days at sea, close to a 1000 miles. You can come along in your IP if you want and I will prove to you that it can make it.
 
#14 ·
Long,
with all due respect... He's LOOKING FOR A FLOATING CONDO. re-read his priorities. An IP-40 is a fine boat, but overkill.
I'd second Dad's choice. The Catalina's sail well, they're well put together, and hold their value.
 
#15 ·
Thank you for the comments. I know its probably not proper or respected to want a floating condo..but I do love sailing and like the occasional offshore jaunt..but personally we like some of the comforts that the "floating condo" has to offer, being realistic that it stil can be seaworthy and safe for conditions that one cannot always predict. I do apprecaite the comments of the island packet but they just dont appeal to me..Im not sure why. I have always believed that a Catalina is where I should end up but all I have sailed is 36-40 ft Hunters for experience. The second problem is being able to charter boats that one might be ineterted in. Obviously Hunter fits the bill for a charter operator, so I will just have to try and find some companies that have some late model Catalinas in there supply...

What is "the ditch" ??
 
#18 ·
Can anyone give me their comments on the reputation of Jeanneau. Are they just a similar boat to a Catalina or Beneteau or do they have any other advantages/disadvantages or other pronounced characteristics compared with the others mentioned.

Thanks again
 
#19 ·
The bene's and jenneau's are of the same mfr, just different ways to kill the pain the same... I don't really want to put the catalina in the same "class" of boat, personal opinion is the cat is a bit better built and built here, not across the pond.
Personal experience with the customer service dept of catalina is top notch, they answer the phone, and if they don't know the answer of the top of their pointy head, they'll look up the "as built" sheets for hull number you've got.
 
#20 ·
one more thing...

there is NOTHING wrong with a floating condo, I kinda like them! :D
 
#21 ·
A tarten is a nice yacht too. A bit more money than a Cat, Jeanneau, Bene or equal, and a bit nicer, and probably sail a bit better also.

I have an older 85 30' Jeanneau, bought from an original owner, overall in good shape. BUT, I have been in some of the newer ones, and not sure if the build is as good as my 85. Supposidly the Jeanneaus are a step above the Beneteaus in that line, with Waquez equal to Tarten, IP etc. But do not quote me on that either.

As mentioned, its your money, I have a friend that hates Catilina's, Jeanneaus and Bene's witha passion. BUT, personally, I feel they ea have a market, they know their market, and build excelent boats for that market. I also know of two people near me with Hunters, overall they like them, but they have older designs, not some of thenewer ones, they also do not like the newst look versions, kinda like me with Jeanneaus......

Marty
 
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