Used boats are REALLY retaining value. - Page 2 - SailNet Community
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post #11 of 63 Old 01-20-2017
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Re: Used boats are REALLY retaining value.

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Originally Posted by Ninefingers View Post
Here's a for instance....every year for the past 5 years a few B343's, (2005) come up for sale locally. And they have been consistently priced at $100,000, (CDN) every year.

It seems like every brand of used boat has it's low (ish) settling point, and the price hardly moves from there. And it's not like we have a lot of inflation either.

That B343 should be down to $80,000 if basic rules of depreciation were figured.
soldboats.com show a history of 343 of your noted vintage selling for 7-12k less than asking.
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The hysterical laughter you hear as you drive a way in your"new" boat ..... is the seller.
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post #12 of 63 Old 01-20-2017
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Re: Used boats are REALLY retaining value.

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... in the 100k range, a broker is making max $10k commission. May seem like a lot to you and I, but not to those guys. They're only picking up the BEST MAINTAINED CLEANEST listings that are likely to sell quickly....
This nails it. the first 5 years there is depreciation. 5-10 years condition starts to matter. After 10 years much of the equipment is into a replacement cycle, so condition is everything. If the owner does only the barest minimum, the boat continues to depreciate right off the bottom of the cliff, like a car. If the owner replaces and refits as needed, then depreciation nearly stops, because deterioration stops, like a house (I'm not sure the house actually goes up in value, it is the underlying real estate that does).

* The hull will last virtually forever.
* The mast will last a very long time.
* The interior, like a house or fine furniture can last a long time with care, varnishing, and reupholstered as needed.
* Engines are replaced (mine are new).
* Rigging and blocks are replaced as needed.
* Systems (AC, windlass, pumps) are replace as needed.

But keeping a boat to that standard requires effort and expense.
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post #13 of 63 Old 01-20-2017
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Re: Used boats are REALLY retaining value.

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This nails it. the first 5 years there is depreciation. 5-10 years condition starts to matter. After 10 years much of the equipment is into a replacement cycle, so condition is everything. If the owner does only the barest minimum, the boat continues to depreciate right off the bottom of the cliff, like a car. If the owner replaces and refits as needed, then depreciation nearly stops, because deterioration stops, like a house (I'm not sure the house actually goes up in value, it is the underlying real estate that does).

* The hull will last virtually forever.
* The mast will last a very long time.
* The interior, like a house or fine furniture can last a long time with care, varnishing, and reupholstered as needed.
* Engines are replaced (mine are new).
* Rigging and blocks are replaced as needed.
* Systems (AC, windlass, pumps) are replace as needed.

But keeping a boat to that standard requires effort and expense.
After somewhere around 4,000 surveys An older boat in truly good condition is as rare has hen's teeth. I may have seen a half dozen that impressed me.
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The hysterical laughter you hear as you drive a way in your"new" boat ..... is the seller.
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post #14 of 63 Old 01-20-2017
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Re: Used boats are REALLY retaining value.

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Not only that, you seem to get *LESS* boat - no more travelers, smaller winches, saildrives instead of transmission/shaft setups, less interior wood joinery and more laminates, less cabinetry in general, less portlights and hatches and more "fixed" windows", cored hulls above waterline vs. solid all the way, wood toe-rails instead of aluminum, smaller pullpits and pushpits, fewer jammers, no mid-ship cleats anymore, etc. They may have marginally more space below decks...but not to justify the drop in those other areas that were important to me.
Boat manufacturers found out quickly that making boats too structurally sound results in boats hanging around for decades, changing hands on the used market continually, instead proceeding in pieces to the landfill. It would behoove them to think of ways to design at least some measure of timed obsolescence into their current boats so they aren't still haunting them on the used market in 2065.

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post #15 of 63 Old 01-20-2017
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Re: Used boats are REALLY retaining value.

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Boat manufacturers found out quickly that making boats too structurally sound results in boats hanging around for decades, changing hands on the used market continually, instead proceeding in pieces to the landfill. It would behoove them to think of ways to design at least some measure of timed obsolescence into their current boats so they aren't still haunting them on the used market in 2065.
Not really a problem for boat builders. Just as people buy new cars when there are great choices in used cars, there is a percentage of people who just want a new boat not a used one!

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post #16 of 63 Old 01-20-2017 Thread Starter
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Re: Used boats are REALLY retaining value.

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After somewhere around 4,000 surveys An older boat in truly good condition is as rare has hen's teeth. I may have seen a half dozen that impressed me.
I'm tempted to have you look at mine .
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post #17 of 63 Old 01-20-2017
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Re: Used boats are REALLY retaining value.

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I'm tempted to have you look at mine .
Currently cruising Bahamas. Glad to have a look when we're back in Toronto end of May

The hysterical laughter you hear as you drive a way in your"new" boat ..... is the seller.
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post #18 of 63 Old 01-20-2017
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Re: Used boats are REALLY retaining value.

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After somewhere around 4,000 surveys An older boat in truly good condition is as rare has hen's teeth. I may have seen a half dozen that impressed me.
Strange position for a boat surveyor to take, I can't imagine the world would have much use for a marine surveyor if everyone bought new

My opinions have been formed after a career of working on commercial vessels (which are just boats with a different purpose than yachts).

I have worked on literally dozens. The oldest of which was a sailing vessel whose rotten hull was hauled off the bottom of lake Erie and rebuilt. The vessels keel was laid in 1812.

The next oldest has been in pretty well continuous passenger service since 1894, the next since 1914 etc.

Some of these old and moderately old commercial vessels were built of such superior quality to some modern vessels that they are virtually irreplaceable today.

The quality of maintenance on these vessels has ranged from poor to exceptional.

I have seen nothing to convince me that even a moderately well maintained and updated vessel with decent genes can't be operated safely and efficiently by capable crew.

If all systems have been allowed to rot to the point of no return, the boat is junk, but if at least the hull, keel, mast and deck are reasonably sound, I call that an inexpensive clean slate to do what you want with.
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Re: Used boats are REALLY retaining value.

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Originally Posted by amwbox View Post
...It would behoove them to think of ways to design at least some measure of timed obsolescence into their current boats.....
Like the sails, standing rigging, engines and anything electronic, which leave many boats worth less than nothing. Bonus points for boats with cored hulls, with non-potted penetrations.


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post #20 of 63 Old 01-20-2017
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Re: Used boats are REALLY retaining value.

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Strange position for a boat surveyor to take, I can't imagine the world would have much use for a marine surveyor if everyone bought new .
5 or 6 times a year I am hired to survey brand new boats. The list of recommendations is often as long as a 40yr. old boat.

The hysterical laughter you hear as you drive a way in your"new" boat ..... is the seller.

Last edited by boatpoker; 01-20-2017 at 06:29 PM.
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