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post #11 of 27 Old 03-15-2007 Thread Starter
 
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Again, I'm just not sure if my expectations are too high for a 27-year-old boat. The CS 36T seem more expensive on the west coast compared to the great lakes, and not many of them come up for sale. I've been looking and comparing for three years and I've seen a lot of sailboats. In terms of all the compromises, this is the model that seems the best for my needs so then I'm just comparing the pros and cons of the three that are currently for sale out here. I sure don't want to survey all three of them to find out which one has fewer hidden issues.
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post #12 of 27 Old 03-15-2007
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Hoffa, if you are edgy about the purchase sit down with yourself and what you know already. Honestly come up with a price that YOU could justify buying the boat at. A broker saying the lowest amount he's ever sold one at yadda yadda doesn't mean anything in YOUR purchase. If there is a price that you would feel cozy about buying the boat at, that's your offer. You can (and should) walk away if it's not met.

One of the key things about sales, whether buying or selling, is knowing what you have, and where you stand. Arguably, the most effective way of finding out where you stand is to take the sale away from, in this case, the seller by walking away from an unmet offer. It's the seller who is going to decide whether he wants to sell it to you at your price, not the broker.
Accordingly, the seller (now it's the broker cause that's all you'll talk to) can do the same thing by saying things like 'the lowest I've, etc etc'. It's a way to test the resolve of the parties ability to buy or sell.

Try to keep your emotions out of the game as salesmen are very adept at using them against you, not in a mean and nasty way, in a closing the sale way.

One favorite of mine is simply to say it the way it is 'this is what I can justify spending for this boat, if the seller can't agree I can understand and I'll just have to keep on looking. Sincerity is the key, once ya learn to fake it, yer home free (that's a lyric from a song I like). If you say something like I've quoted above, you've taken control of the sale. Now it's up to the other party to sweat your resolve. Usually it will be by making a counter offer back to you. Even if they have come more than 1/2 way from where you were to your current offer, stay the course and walk away. The phone may just ring in a day or two. You can leave the deal behind you or get the deal YOU want.

Don

I love being on an Even Keel WTF are YOU lookin at?????

Last edited by donrr1; 03-15-2007 at 03:17 PM.
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post #13 of 27 Old 03-15-2007
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Now you can go look at the others with a more educated eye and the first survey in hand/mind. If she still compares favourably then go from there. These are good boats, they hold their value well but it is nearly 30 yrs old and some upgrading is not unreasonable to expect. As many have said here before, don't blow the budget in that first cheque!

It's that good rep and relative rarity that will serve you well, too, when you go to resell.
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post #14 of 27 Old 03-15-2007
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If you're not comfortable at buying the boat at a given price... walk away from the boat and look at another.




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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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post #15 of 27 Old 03-15-2007 Thread Starter
 
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That's the thing, what is the boat "worth" not what I want to pay for it. What is the market? I've seen a lot of floating turds for more than I'm offering here, and I've seen some very nice boats for less. In some ways the market makes no sense, like the fact that CS boats are more expensive on the west coast than inland and yet you get less selection.

As an example, I think westsail 32s are very underpriced while hunters are equally overpriced. I personally don't think a CS36 is worth twice that of a westsail 32, but the market says so, so that's what I pay.

It is a difficult process, this yacht buying thing. Much more difficult than buying a house or car. Not only is there the constant compromise thing, but there are so many models, each designed for different things, they are found in wildly differing conditions, some of which only comes to light when you blow 1200.00 on a haul-out or survey. And in the end you could still end up with gilded poo. A liveaboard boat has to be house, car, international jet, lifesaver, life risker, entertainment centre, answer to one's lifelong dreams yet be a balm to the wife's natural caution and fears, stable yet nimble, seaworthy yet comfortable, well built but affordable, attractive yet practical, well maintained, reasonably priced, and not be sold by an idiot.

And despite all this we have to make a rational, reasoned judgment when it comes to putting the cash on the barrel head. And to further muddy the waters, answers to most of the above are subject to hearsay, random opinion and furious argument. After all the steps we have gone through to get this far, I'm still scratching my head and saying what the hell? I just wanted to buy a sailboat

A part of me just wants to jump in my VW bus and head to Mexico.
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post #16 of 27 Old 03-15-2007
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Boat prices are highly subjective, very variable and depend on lots of different factors. The real question you should be asking isn't what is the boat worth... but what is the boat worth to you.

If you feel you are paying too much for the boat... don't buy it.

Likewise, if you don't love the boat, or think it is beautiful.... don't buy it.


As Malcolm Reynolds would say (slightly edited):

Quote:
"You know what the first rule of sailin' is? … Love.

You can know all the math in the 'Verse, but you take a boat to the sea that you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turn of the worlds. Love keeps her floating when she oughtta sink… tells ya she's hurtin' before she keels… makes her a home."



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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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post #17 of 27 Old 03-15-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoffaLives
A part of me just wants to jump in my VW bus and head to Mexico.
Pick me up on the way, first round of tequila is on me.

Great men always have too much sail up. - Christopher Buckley


Vaya con Dios
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post #18 of 27 Old 03-15-2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoffaLives
A part of me just wants to jump in my VW bus and head to Mexico.
That won't get you back on the water...




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Telstar 28
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You know what the first rule of sailing is? ...Love. You can learn all the math in the 'verse, but you take
a boat to the sea you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps
her going when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurting 'fore she keens. Makes her a home.

—Cpt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity (edited)

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post #19 of 27 Old 03-15-2007
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'The market' goes like this.... something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it. In this case that someone is you.

Don

I love being on an Even Keel WTF are YOU lookin at?????
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post #20 of 27 Old 03-15-2007
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Fair Market Value (price) = What a willing Buyer will pay a willing Seller.

Thats what it boils down to.

If there is a gap in the formula it is time to walk to the next Borker.

I remember some advice about buying used cars (or boats) that I was
given many years ago -

Something like "If the salesman (Broker) will let you walk out the door
and off the lot - You HAVE reached the bottom price" Until that happens
It is just haggling -

Just offer what it is worth to you to buy the boat - and tell him to give
the offer to the owner. (kinda like saying - Do your Job and shut up)

Just my .02 (USD)

Good Luck

Regards,

Stan G.
s/v Tryphena a '74 Grampian 26
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