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-   -   Great Expectations (https://www.sailnet.com/forums/boat-review-purchase-forum/30293-great-expectations.html)

HoffaLives 03-15-2007 01:32 AM

Great Expectations
 
Maybe too great. Had a survey done today on a CS 36T. Structurally the boat is in very good shape, but lots of niggling and not so niggling things, a few of which must be taken care of and a longer list of stuff that should be taken care of. Mostly I was disappointed by auto-grade wiring terminals, strange plumbing and rat's nest arrangement of stuff in lockers, behind panels, etc. Lots of enthusiasm and creativity I suppose, but not necessarily appropriate for marine use, and if you didn't put it in poor you that has to figger the stuff
out. Even the surveyor was left scratching his head a few times.

Anyway, the surveyor figures it would take about ten grand to update stuff, and the boat is already on the high side of the price range for these models, (in part because of structural/mechanical upgrades done). Does that seem reasonable? Is there a general rule of thumb regarding what you should be looking at in costs AFTER you buy a used sailboat?

Honestly, I feel a little let down. Although it's necessary, taking apart a sailboat like this is like the difference between meeting a gorgeous woman on a smoky dance floor and seeing her the next morning under bright fluorescent lights.:eek:

sailaway21 03-15-2007 01:50 AM

What stuff needs to be updated?

Kacper 03-15-2007 03:04 AM

Quote:

Honestly, I feel a little let down. Although it's necessary, taking apart a sailboat like this is like the difference between meeting a gorgeous woman on a smoky dance floor and seeing her the next morning under bright fluorescent lights.
Ya... Except, the boat you can make look gorgeous again with cash!

Not so much so with the woman :(

... Check out what this guy did with a totaly ran down Cat 27

http://www.semyan.com/GataLuna/repair.htm

I think any used boat you buy you'll have to do at least some work to get her to feel just right to you and be confident in it.

Most women come used anyway... They too, just need a little TLC to shine :)

Kacper

PBzeer 03-15-2007 03:11 AM

10% of purchase price is rule of thumb, but I would expect 20% is more likely based on my experiences. Now is the time you make the post survey offer, so make one that reflects what you found.

sailingdog 03-15-2007 08:28 AM

What'd you expect?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HoffaLives
Maybe too great. Had a survey done today on a CS 36T. Structurally the boat is in very good shape, but lots of niggling and not so niggling things, a few of which must be taken care of and a longer list of stuff that should be taken care of. Mostly I was disappointed by auto-grade wiring terminals, strange plumbing and rat's nest arrangement of stuff in lockers, behind panels, etc. Lots of enthusiasm and creativity I suppose, but not necessarily appropriate for marine use, and if you didn't put it in poor you that has to figger the stuff
out. Even the surveyor was left scratching his head a few times.

Anyway, the surveyor figures it would take about ten grand to update stuff, and the boat is already on the high side of the price range for these models, (in part because of structural/mechanical upgrades done). Does that seem reasonable? Is there a general rule of thumb regarding what you should be looking at in costs AFTER you buy a used sailboat?

Honestly, I feel a little let down. Although it's necessary, taking apart a sailboat like this is like the difference between meeting a gorgeous woman on a smoky dance floor and seeing her the next morning under bright fluorescent lights.

Generally, I recommend saving at least 15-20% of the purchase budget for doing upgrades, repairs and modifying the boat. This is true of almost any boat I've seen, new or used.

The strange plumbing, rat's nest of stuff in the lockers, and auto-grade wiring terminals are par for the course. If the updating is worth $10,000 then knock about half that off your offer... as I doubt you'll get the full 10K.

You don't say how old the sailboat is... and I'm guessing that it is probably 15+ years old. A lot can happen in that much time. If the deck, hull, rigging and engine are solid, then anything else can be dealt with fairly reasonably.




HoffaLives 03-15-2007 11:59 AM

A 1980 CS36 Traditional. All the electronics are old - backstay mount radar, old RV style 1000w inverter, battery monitor not working right, three old (two antique) depth sounders, ancient VHF, one autohelm not working. Letrasan MSD not working and no holding tank. Original knotmeter and log not working. 8 through hull valves replaced with industrial plastic ones (yikes). Backstay original and needing replacement. Rat's nest plumbing in galley and head, leaking Y valve in head, solar panel wiring corroded, one panel has a corroded spot internally, muffler shot. salt water pumps not working in galley or head. Wiring "suspicious". Need to rebed chainplates, no tender, running rigging a bit tired.

On the plus side, bottom and rudder has recently been epoxied, new propane salon heater, recent oversize standing rigging, windlass with spare motor, B&G below deck autopilot, decent sails 4 or 5 years old, maxprop, new refrigeration system, engine driven salon heater, recent full canvas cockpit enclosure, new cockpit cushions, 3 solar panels, hydraulic backstay adjuster, lots of new spare parts, new dripless shaft seal, tranny recently rebuilt. 3000 hours on engine, which runs and starts very well. (Vendor has spare rebuilt but I said no thanks -who packs around a spare engine? Where would I keep it?). Deck and hull sounded out okay. New salon sole. 4 new 6 volt very good quality golf cart batteries.

We still haven't had the mechanic go over the engine yet. Vendor is asking $90,000 on west coast (BC)

PBzeer 03-15-2007 12:10 PM

Electronics are something that can't really be part of the price, especially, old and/or inoperative ones. Thru-hulls, muffler, bad plumbing, the chainplates, are things that should be included though. In other words, anything that has to do with the actual operation of the boat, minus the electronics.

If the price is reflective of all the things you have mentioned being operative, then you should discount the price accordingly. If the price reflects "as is", then I think it's too high.

This is though, just my opinion.

Sequitur 03-15-2007 12:21 PM

Have you looked at the three other CS 36s that your broker has listed? They are all listed at about $20,000 less. Is your pick worth $20K more than the other three?

HoffaLives 03-15-2007 12:51 PM

The price on yachtworld is incorrect. I'm going in at 90, and all the rest are asking 89. They are not as well equipped, and they will show their own flaws when surveyed, I'm sure. The one in Sidney seems more comparable to the one I'm working on, and maybe someone will get it for 85. The broker Paul Shield has an excellent reputation in the west coast cs community, and seems to be a straight shooter (he's one of those rare brokers who doesn't come across like slimy used car salesmen). He tells me the lowest price he has ever sold one for is 76 grand. He does agree that the price has to be adjusted to reflect the survey, or have the vendor take care of the things that are really important like the thru-hull valves.

bestfriend 03-15-2007 01:17 PM

Hoffa - Saw your post on CSOA. I was the one that posted recently about buying the CS34, and ended up having to fix a lot of things(headliner crack). Mine was in what appeared to be great condition, but I am still sinking lots of money and time into it to fix things that went unnoticed. And while I am fixing things, other things are breaking. The CS is a great boat, don't get me wrong, but take what you see that needs to be fixed and double the amount in reality. If you have reservations about buying it, don't. There are too many other boats out there. But it is your time and money and I don't know how much you have of either to put in. My boat spoke to me and said, "if you pass me up, you will regret it".
Best


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