Worth messing with? - Page 4 - SailNet Community
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post #31 of 56 Old 02-19-2018 Thread Starter
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Re: Worth messing with?

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Originally Posted by Arcb View Post
Not bad. Lots of people do it. I thought I understood your intent to be to cruise the Great Loop. If you're just using the Mississippi as a transit route, that changes things a bit.

In your first post, you asked about using the Bristol 32 on small inland lakes. Then you mentioned the great loop. I got the impression you were thinking a lot of sheltered water usage. I was just trying to throw some ideas your way to carefully consider useage before buying anything
The point of the great loop is to escape the great lakes to the gulf.. Maybe come back home that way some day too..

The inland lakes I mentioned are local but have access to Lake Michigan and therefore theoretically the rest of the world..
Check out Grand Traverse Bay and Torch Lake on google maps.. They are pretty nice.. The area I would probably learn to sail..
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post #32 of 56 Old 02-19-2018 Thread Starter
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Re: Worth messing with?

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Originally Posted by JonZackBen11& View Post
Do not be put off by the neigh Sayers. I am in the beginning of just what you are talking about. If you shop new everything than yes you will pay through the nose but keep your ears and eyes open and you will be surprised what you can find out there. I am also in NWM. I found a Alegra 24
ft hull and deck in Chicago, a trailer locally, 18 hp westerbeke in Maine with 67 hrs. on it ect. I have less then two thousand dollars in the package so far. Is the task a little daunting? Yes but take it one step at a time. Even if you never finish it you can't ever say you don't have anything to do. Good luck
Where are the sailboat junkyards around here?
Their has to be one somewhere no? Salvage, used parts, stuff like that..
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post #33 of 56 Old 02-19-2018
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Re: Worth messing with?

Check with all of the local marina's you will be surprised what lurks in the back of the yard. I like Craigslist to.
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post #34 of 56 Old 02-19-2018
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Re: Worth messing with?

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Originally Posted by Can't Swim View Post
The point of the great loop is to escape the great lakes to the gulf.. Maybe come back home that way some day too..

The inland lakes I mentioned are local but have access to Lake Michigan and therefore theoretically the rest of the world..
Check out Grand Traverse Bay and Torch Lake on google maps.. They are pretty nice.. The area I would probably learn to sail..
Okay, but I do try to google places I am unfamiliar with before responding to a post. In your first post you mentioned Clam Lake and Lake Bellaire, Michigan.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@44.94333.../data=!3m1!1e3

The boat that I would recommend for these lakes might be something like this.

LASER 2 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Last edited by Arcb; 02-19-2018 at 08:45 PM.
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Re: Worth messing with?

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Originally Posted by Can't Swim View Post
Yeah I think I will buy a small sailboat, that can be hauled by my X5, and learn to sail..

Cost to me is mostly a function of buy price VS prospective sale price..
I'd definitely buy a small sailboat I could win on or atleast be confident I could break even on.. I don't buy things I would lose on generally..
For example, I have 5 cars and a motorhome all I can win on.. Couple of em might even swap up for a damn nice boat..
Bet I could swap my M3 for a $10k boat that might be worth $15k-$20k in florida.. No?
You may find that since the market here is glutted with more boats than people want that it might be worth only $5,000 to $7,000 here. People asking top dollar for their boats are usually the ones who keep posting them for sale for a long time and then finally start dropping the price most times to less than 1/2 what they were originally asking unless they have some mega yacht that millionaires are lining up to get a hold of. You will find many boats like Encinadas, Sirus, San Juan Clarks, West Wight Potters, Odays, MacGregors, Catalinas, etc around 20 to 25 feet in sailing condition selling for down between $1,500 to $3,000 as asking is not getting. Project boats even up over 30 feet can be free to $500 with many being projects that the current owner has given up on. If you find an abandoned boat and yes there are many you can even get it by reporting it as abandoned after which the enforcement officer (if its floating and not sitting full of water) will tow away and after something like 45 days you can ask for a Certificate of Compliance, pay the fee and the boat is yours.

Many will give sad stories on how they lost the title and try to convince you that you can easily get one with their bill of sale however that is not true. No title then you have to go to court unless its under 16 feet and you don't intend to ever put even an electric trolling motor on it. The owner of record on the other hand has it easy and just pays the fee to have the title or on a sub 16 foot boat with no motor registration reprinted which here in Pinellas County can be between $25 to $75 with no court fees and legally sell it to you.

Last edited by SeaStar58; 02-19-2018 at 09:41 PM.
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post #36 of 56 Old 02-20-2018
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Re: Worth messing with?

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Originally Posted by Can't Swim View Post
a $10k boat that might be worth $15k-$20k in florida.. No?
See, that's the core idea that raises a huge red flag to me here.

If your goal is to sail the boat for many years,

and you plan to get real smart about becoming an amateur surveyor to save a few grand off the getting-started price,

or, have very deep pockets and would love the fixing-up process just for the inherent joy of it

I would say mostly silly idea, but yes some chance of success.

Thinking you'll actually make any money off the project, or even get some fraction of your investment back, is IMO just unrealistic for a noob.
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post #37 of 56 Old 02-20-2018
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Re: Worth messing with?

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Thinking you'll actually make any money off the project, or even get some fraction of your investment back, is IMO just unrealistic for a noob.
Yeah. There's no "flip this boat" where you make money doing this. Even if you increase the value of an old beater project boat, the money and time you sink into it is usually worth far more. The reason to do it is because you enjoy restoring stuff, or to get you a boat you can sail. Any expectation of even recouping most of your money invested is a pipe dream.
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post #38 of 56 Old 02-20-2018
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Re: Worth messing with?

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Originally Posted by Can't Swim View Post
.....Cost to me is mostly a function of buy price VS prospective sale price..
I'd definitely buy a small sailboat I could win on or atleast be confident I could break even on.. I don't buy things I would lose on generally........
A very few folks pull this off, especially with 30 ft aux powered sailboat boats. All it takes is one system fail and your math flips quickly. Happens all the time. You think your buy plus rehab costs are in line, which itself is very difficult, and you blow out a sail or find a meat hook on the rigging or the engine eats a piston ring.

Boating, as rule, does not lend itself to breaking even, although, someone always comes along with a single ancedote. The closest rationalization is to ignore all the routine maintenance as your cost of enjoyment. If these things start to count, the flip math will never work, IMO. If they don't, your odds get better, but are still against.

Very small boats, without aux engines, could work. Sometime people sell them cheap just to get them out of the yard and there is much less to go wrong. Like we've reviewed, even zero can be too expensive, as they get bigger.

I was recently aboard a boat that the owner purchase brand new for nearly $3 million, just three years ago. He's now asking $1.5 million and I'll bet he gets $1.2-$1.3 million. Reportedly, the plan was to have a new boat in retirement and sail her for a few years, then move on. Not sure I totally believe the story. Nevertheless, this dramatic math happens all the time. Some are just willing to dump huge sums of lost wealth into the sport.

Personally, I've lost about $200k on the value of our boat, since I bought her nearly a decade ago. When I consider that $20k per year, plus all the other costs, it's worth every penny for the amount of enjoyment we get with family and friends each year. Plus, it's still substantially cheaper than owning a waterfront home around here, with all it's related maintenance and taxes. Pure rationalization. That's how it's done.

Good luck.


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post #39 of 56 Old 02-20-2018
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Re: Worth messing with?

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Originally Posted by Can't Swim View Post
Any comment on that delivery experience and cost?
My delivery experience would be a little different than yours, but here goes. I had a hydraulic trailer move my boat, from Holland Mi, 25 miles to my house. The hydraulic trailer is a self unloader, and there are not many of them in Michigan, only one that was large enough to move my boat. The cost was a little over $1000, due to the fact the truck had to come from Wisconsin, due to the size of my boat. There are smaller hydraulics in Michigan that could move your boat. The other option is to have a standard boat hauler move a boat for you, and then you would have to have some way of offloading it off the transport trailer, such as a crane. Once in your yard, you will need some type of support for the boat, unless it has a cradle that you can use. If there is no cradle, you will have to buy boat stands($75 each used), or make a cradle.


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post #40 of 56 Old 02-20-2018
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Re: Worth messing with?

Go to Youtube and find the "Sail Life" channel ( https://www.youtube.com/user/madsdahlke). Spend a couple evenings watching what this guy has spent 2 or 3 years doing. Note: I love watching him. keeps me motivated to continue my little dinghy project boat and reminds me to never, ever think about buying a big one.

Side note: What drives me crazy about working on my boat is not the cost of parts for it (although I could have bought a new better boat for less than I've spent on my). It's the costs and never end of supplies, Sandpaper, FG, SS nut and bolts and the tool I don't have.......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Can't Swim View Post
Would something like this be worth messing with if a person could get it for almost nothing?

No link..
nmi dot craigslist dot com search " Bristol 32 Sailboat "
Just as an example.. I would most like to find a higher end boat to work with..

That boat for example is about 100 miles from my house and already on the hard..
Is it rational to think about getting a boat like that delivered to my property by land?

If I found a boat in the water, the closest lake michigan access to my house is 10-20 miles.. Is it rational to haul a boat that far to my property for a project?

If I could get one delivered to my property, or have a trailer, I could have it wrapped like those canadians that live on their boat year round like a bubble, and work on it until I'm ready to put it back in water somewhere?

Do people do such things? I don't see sailboats in many people's yards..

I am closest to Torch Lake, Clam Lake, and Lake Bellair but I don't know how far into the inland lakes you can get boats this big..

From my research so far it seems like it's possible to get very good deals on boats around here if you look in the right places..

If I could find something, for a steal, a worthy base for a project (quality boat), realistically fixable, it be possible to get it to my property for a year or 2 of work, and it likely be worth what I would have to put into it to make it ready to sail at least to the keys from Lake Michigan if not bluewater worthy, I might want to get one..

Something that makes financial sense and potentially become bluewater material..

Is it at all realistic to think that I could get a boat quite cheap, put a few thousand into it and a lot of elbow grease, and it be worth $10k-$30k+? once it gets to Florida?

what say ye?

Disclaimer: I don't know jack all about boats yet. I have always wanted to RV but I'm thinking a sailboat might be more cost effective and rewarding..
I have a lot of automotive mechanic experience, construction experience, plumbing (oilfield), etc. so I am pretty confident in my ability to fix pretty much anything myself with the right amount of time, research, and money..


Another question..
Say you have a completely ruined sailboat like that, how do you get rid of it? Just a shell imagine..
What does it cost to get something like that taken away and disposed of?

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