Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs - Page 27 - SailNet Community
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post #261 of 577 Old 02-26-2018
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

why would a diesel need an ignition relay? many of the new diesels are fly by wire for the controls. Just a bad idea for a boat. IMHO

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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

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why would a diesel need an ignition relay? many of the new diesels are fly by wire for the controls. Just a bad idea for a boat. IMHO
Bear in mind, I'm guessing here. So don't take my word for it. I've just seen that he's replaced these things several times - and the test to see if it's working is to turn the key the first detente and see if there is power.

The Outremer brochure/specs don't list the make of the engine. So I don't know.
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

smj - that is a good series of articles. I like what he says here in Part 1...

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PERFORMANCE IS IMPORTANT Ė NOT IN OUTRIGHT SPEED TERMS, BUT CERTAINLY IN CRUISING SAILING

What my sailing experiences tell me and what the Bureau of Meteorology confirms is that the average wind speeds along the east coast of Australia are below 15kts and mostly below 12kts. Of course as cruisers we donít leave safe harbour if itís blowing stupid wind speeds, so by a combination of choice and nature the large majority of our sailing is done in light winds. What that means then is that if you own a boat that wonít effectively sail in 12kts of wind or less then you own a motor sailer. What that means is that performance is important to cruisers, perhaps more so that racers, performance to a cruiser means actually sailing whilst cruising and not motoring with the all the costs and frequent trips to marinas that is inherent in motorboat travel. Performance under sail is a cruisers life life performance under sail is a racerís afternoon fun. If you need 20kts to get going then you arenít going to sail too much, at least in this part of the world.
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

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smj - that is a good series of articles. I like what he says here in Part 1...


The author is a very experienced Multihull sailor, not only with his boats but also racing on others and doing boat tests for the Australian Multihull Magazine. That magazine gets my [emoji1303]ís up as the best.


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post #265 of 577 Old 02-26-2018
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

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The author is a very experienced Multihull sailor, not only with his boats but also racing on others and doing boat tests for the Australian Multihull Magazine. That magazine gets my [emoji1303]ís up as the best.


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As an ex-architect, I really like his walking through the DESIGN rationale behind these decisions - like with the location of the galley in relation to the helm and the considerations therein...

Multihull Mythologies (Part 2) | Seawind Catamarans Blog

He describes the interface between these kinds of decisions and the marketing that drives them and/or justifies them. This is the real job of a designer...to think these details through and make decisions based on his/her interpretations of that program. Marketers then try to position these decisions as unique and advantageous - then the market decides.

The issue is - the market typically doesn't understand those details and the problems solutions surrounding them, so things can get muddled very quickly and you see strange things popping up in boats that the market may want (which makes it easy for the marketing side) - but is a bad decision (which makes it hard for the design side).

Anyway, great resource to see the thinking behind some of these directions. Thanks!
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post #266 of 577 Old 02-26-2018
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

That is a Volvo engine. The module that is failing is an electronic control for the engine that manages start, stop, and instrumentation like tach and gauges. Some have had a lot of problems with these, while others none at all.

That Outremer access looks not well-thought. Here is how we access our under berth engines - no need to disturb the mattress or remove boards:

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post #267 of 577 Old 02-26-2018
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

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Originally Posted by smackdaddy View Post
As an ex-architect, I really like his walking through the DESIGN rationale behind these decisions - like with the location of the galley in relation to the helm and the considerations therein...



Multihull Mythologies (Part 2) | Seawind Catamarans Blog



He describes the interface between these kinds of decisions and the marketing that drives them and/or justifies them. This is the real job of a designer...to think these details through and make decisions based on his/her interpretations of that program. Marketers then try to position these decisions as unique and advantageous - then the market decides.



The issue is - the market typically doesn't understand those details and the problems solutions surrounding them, so things can get muddled very quickly and you see strange things popping up in boats that the market may want (which makes it easy for the marketing side) - but is a bad decision (which makes it hard for the design side).



Anyway, great resource to see the thinking behind some of these directions. Thanks!


No problem, Iíve always thought that was a good read.


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post #268 of 577 Old 02-26-2018
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

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Is all service done from above leaning down???
That picture is somewhat deceiving, it's taken from deck level. There is a '1st level' that has the engine room doors that are open in the pic, then you climb down into the engine room. Like I said, the starboard side is the 'spacious' engine room, the port side is smaller as the generator sits on the 1st level, hence the engine room doors are narrower. On the port side, you can only stand on one side of the engine and have to bend over to work on the port side of the port engine (oil filter, etc.).

Everything is a compromise.

FP, with the Belize model, was one of the early adopters of the 'engines outside the living space', and hence the engine/saildrive is mounted too close to the rudder, IMO. Reason I say this is there is not enough room between the saildrive leg and rudder for a folding prop. Yeah, feathering would work but not folding. I've often thought they should have flipped the engine around with saildrive in front and just rotate the lower leg 180į. But this would have caused them to add the saildrive leg extension which probably would add $50 to the cost I've thought of doing it myself, but that project hasn't made it high enough on the priority list, yet! Maybe if I ever have to repower....

So all the batteries, engines, generator, fuel tank is aft of the aft bulkhead (which has only one hole in each engine room (with a plug in it) way above the waterline to stick a fire extinguisher thru), no chance for smells/heat to creep into the living space.
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

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That picture is somewhat deceiving, it's taken from deck level. There is a '1st level' that has the engine room doors that are open in the pic, then you climb down into the engine room. Like I said, the starboard side is the 'spacious' engine room, the port side is smaller as the generator sits on the 1st level, hence the engine room doors are narrower. On the port side, you can only stand on one side of the engine and have to bend over to work on the port side of the port engine (oil filter, etc.).



Everything is a compromise.



FP, with the Belize model, was one of the early adopters of the 'engines outside the living space', and hence the engine/saildrive is mounted too close to the rudder, IMO. Reason I say this is there is not enough room between the saildrive leg and rudder for a folding prop. Yeah, feathering would work but not folding. I've often thought they should have flipped the engine around with saildrive in front and just rotate the lower leg 180į. But this would have caused them to add the saildrive leg extension which probably would add $50 to the cost I've thought of doing it myself, but that project hasn't made it high enough on the priority list, yet! Maybe if I ever have to repower....



So all the batteries, engines, generator, fuel tank is aft of the aft bulkhead (which has only one hole in each engine room (with a plug in it) way above the waterline to stick a fire extinguisher thru), no chance for smells/heat to creep into the living space.


The only negative is thatís a lot of weight far aft. Iím sure FP took that into account when designing as they have a reputation for good performance.


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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

Jeez -after reading the full article...why anyone would use this as an example of a "cruising catamaran capsizing" is beyond me. Look at this...

Quote:
Conditions strengthened to a 25 knot average and we did see winds as high as 39.5 knots in a squall on that first 35 mile reach to the turning mark. Top boats speed was 31+ knots. We turned the corner and were on a 49 mile run to the next island. Wind speed hung in the mid to upper 20s with gusts into the lower 30s. Things remained sporty!
They were pushing this thing as hard as the G4 crew as pushing that boat. And they both went over for the same reason.

++++++++

I do have a question from a structural engineering standpoint. I posted that video of the dismasting earlier. It's one of the best examples I've ever seen of watching the build-up to the actual dismasting.

To help minimize risk of capsize - could you essentially design a failure point with the rig in relation to the boat's weight and capzizing moment? I'm just wondering what math is beind the strength level of the rig.

What happened in the video was definitely the best-case scenario. Could you find a middle ground without descending into dismastings everywhere?
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