Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs - Page 3 - SailNet Community
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post #21 of 577 Old 02-22-2018
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

As I continue to research I am blown away by the number of videos showing various cats crossing oceans...from the Atlantic to the Pacific to the Southern Ocean. Whoever says cats are just dock queens doesn't seem to have a clue. There's a whole world of mutli sailing going on out there that I certainly wasn't aware of.

These youngish captain and crew certainly seem to be enjoying their crossing on an Outremer 55...


At around 3:00 they show what looks to be the Code 0 furler. That seems to be a horrible way to rig it. What's up with that?
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post #22 of 577 Old 02-22-2018
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

Here's that C0 furler rigging I was talking about...



That can't be right. I assume that's a dyneema strop - but still.
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post #23 of 577 Old 02-22-2018
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

Hey Mark - I was reading about the recent 2018 Boot Dusseldorf in CW and came across this...

Quote:
It was all a quite entertaining backdrop for the launch of Bavaria’s new C45 and C50 cruising models and its flagship, a stunning 65-footer, all from Cossutti Yacht Design. But Bavaria wasn’t the only show in town. Rival German builder Hanse introduced its new 588 and 675, as well as newly styled 388, 348 and 548 models. Look for all of these boats to make their way to shows in the U.S. over the next year, along with catamarans from Privilège, the French builder that Hanse has acquired. Also new to the multihull scene is Dufour Yachts, which displayed a model of its soon-to-be launched 48-foot catamaran. The company also introduced its twin-wheel Dufour 360 Grand Large cruising sailboat at the show.
So - ~70' monos are becoming pretty widespread from the major production builders. No wonder Oyster couldn't compete. They were just hour-glassed out of the market. For example, this Solaris 68 is being marketed as a "couples boat":



But it's the bold part that really caught my eye...both German production mono brands are now in the mutli game with Hanse puchasing Privilege...



And Dufor has also jumped in on the French side. Hell, even Discovery Yachts is producing cats in the Bluewater Catamarans line (I'll have to talk with them about that unfortunate name. They obviously are oblivious to the sacredness of the term).

With Beneteau/Jeanneau owning Lagoon it certainly seems there is a seismic shift toward wider boats with more hulls - not just longer boats with "more luxury". And with price points beginning to close between monos and mutlis - I think we're definitely seeing a tipping point.
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

Here's the breakdown of the ARC multi entries:

Outremer - 3
Lagoon - 12
Fountaine-Pajot - 6
Aikane - 1
Catana - 1
Nautitech - 1
Custom - 1
Neel - 1
Unknown - 1
Saona - 1

Mark, is that Saona a brand of it's own? There's also a Saona line of FP boats it seems.
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

That Neel 51 is an interesting boat...

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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanderO View Post
Again... I see no demand for cats in souther NE... Why? Why is Europe different? Or is mostly the med as opposed to the north sea?
As for general demand, you really should poke around YouTube. I think you'll find a lot of the answers there.

As for Europe, Med, Carib, etc. - Mark has already pointed out - and I have presented market data - that clearly shows demand for cats is driving the huge shift in the new boats being built/purchased to meet that charter demand. And as Mark has also pointed out - you have years of waiting lists for new cats. You don't for monos.

So, I don't think there is any one single "why". Cats are just generally more attractive all-round sailing platforms than monos. I think that's becoming very evident and somewhat inarguable. And now that they are becoming more affordable there's really no turning back. Where the ratio will settle? Who knows? But I definitely don't think that shift is anywhere near settled yet.
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

Agreed Mark. I wouldn't choose fiberglass if my concentration was going to be be high-lats - although I wouldn't necessarily be afraid of passing through high-lats in a glass boat if I was confident in her. That video I posted earlier of that Leopard's (?) run from Cape Town to Oz was impressive. And Sequitur will always stand as a great example on the mono side.

So, as you say, it comes down to what you're doing with the boat. I sure as hell wouldn't want an alum "expedition" boat in the Med or Carib. And I also wouldn't buy a cat if I wasn't going to be sailing mostly full time. It makes no sense to me to dump that much money into just keeping a boat at the dock. I think you have to be sailing it for it to make any sense whatsoever financially.

As for learning - I'm honestly changing my outlook there too. Instead of dinghy sailing - I want my boys to keep learning on our beachcat, Fiasco. First, it's SO much more fun and fast than even a J24 - and second, I think you learn a lot more critical aspects of control than you do with a dinghy. You're always on that line of going over unless you balance everything just right. I love that. It's way gnarlier than dipping a rail. And flying a hull is about as fun as it gets - except on a cruising cat.
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal Paradise View Post
Slightly different take on it - I like sailing, motorcycling, and flying. All three involve a tri axial motion, a balancing of forces, a poetry of motion where my skill translates into this equation. It is not so much about burying the rail as it is that.

That said, I'd rather be sailing a cat some day than not sailing.
We're a lot alike then. And I'd suggest...you need one of these...



Or better yet...one of these...

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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

Holy crap!!!! 40 knots?!?!?!?!



You win.
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

Now this is an interesting reflection of this discussion about monos and multis. Though I'm not a fan of their video series, Paul and Sheryl Shard of Distant Shores have over 100K miles sailing and living aboard since the '80s. Their first boat was a Classic 37 that took a complete refit...



Then came a Southerly 42...



Then a Southerly 49...



Then a new Southerly/Discovery* 48 (which has the Hunter arch by the way - nice)...



*Now, for the tie-in. Discovery bought Southerly - so another mono builder bites the dust. But Discovery also has the Bluewater Catamaran brand.



And when you think about the sailing abilities of and approaches to these two boat types - it actually makes a lot of sense for Discovery to have these two lines of boats.

Here is this couple covering an Atlantic crossing on a Bluewater 50...


The first 8 seconds gives you a very good idea of how stable these cats are in big seas. But let's evaluate its seaworthiness based on past discussions of what it takes to survive out there...

1:42 - Oh boy, Capta will love the fact that this particular "roomaran" has the hot tub! No circular staircase though.
2:18 - Not just in-hull portlights - but freakin' picture windows! Death.
2:26+ - ZERO proper seaberths - death.
2:33 - HEATED TOWEL RACKS IN THE HEAD? WTH?!?!?!
2:38 - Angry sea ready and waiting to bust out those in-hull lights and kill everyone inside. Death.
2:50 - Dual headsails - good. In-mast main - death.
2:57 - Swept-back spreaders and no backstay - death and dismasting.
5:18+ - Interior tour of the last thing you'll ever see before dying. NO PROPER SEABERTHS!
8:42+ - Exterior tour of what will be underwater when she fails to right herself and breaks the deal!
9:15 - Hot tub baby!
9:50+ - Selling their stuff.

And here is the footage of the boat failing and everyone dying...


It's hard to watch...

1:48 - You can see where the boat was already falling apart. A bad omen.
3:53 - You can see the diamond stays and swept-back spreaders - with no backstay. Did they rip off Hunter? This mast will NEVER make it across the Atlantic - or at least the main will be in tatters.
5:39 - Where are the fiddles on those countertops? And why are you people strapped into the galley?
7:03 - They haul in a nice catch for dinner. A dirty filter.
8:24 - More boring cooking - no Flying Chefs.
9:00 - The boat begins to sink and everyone tries to figure out how to staunch the flow of water. Panic sets in...and the lady eats another cinnamon roll.
9:50 - They ignore the emergency have steak and wine as they await their fate. No one is even holding onto the wine bottle to keep it from falling over!?!?!
10:12 - Drunk on wine as the boat sinks, they put the assym up - hoping to make Tortola before they slip beneath the waves.

Oh good lord there looks to be 3 of these videos. Let's just jump the end to see they went down...


1:50 - He gives an overview of the boat (a 50'er designed for couples).
3:16 - Cake. With seagull crap on it. And stuff all over the counters - unsecured - AT SEA!?!?!
4:05 - Very dangerous galley protocol. The pan isn't even in the tongs!
4:15 - Good lord they cooked the poodle. It must getting bad.
7:39 - Still waiting for the F12 storm. You know it's coming.
7:55 - Dude talks about out of 8 crossings, this is the lightest wind ever...proving that catamarans are safer.
8:40 - A look at the nav station as alarms are sounding all over the place with that water streaming in from the cheap escape hatch.
9:26 - The galley at night. He's barely able to stand up from the horrible motion of the catamaran.
10:00 - He brags about the battery bank and everything being able to be run off AC inverters. And 3 fridge-freezers. What couple needs that at sea when your fighting for your lives?
10:20 - He points out the obvious ridiculousness of standard, comfortably living room chairs on a proper ocean going vessel.
11:57 - Finally the F12 comes. Oh never mind.
12:50 - The seas come up at least. And that lady is still nonchalantly cooking like she's on a cat or something!
13:32 - Finally the boobies come out!

Wait - LANDFALL!?!?! It's only been 21 days and no one is dead!! They're just fatter and more well-rested!?!?! How can that be?!?!? Have they never heard of SN?

What a let down.

PS - You can compare this crossing with their other videos on their Southerly's. I'll take the Bluewater, thanks.
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