Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs - Page 41 - SailNet Community
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post #401 of 577 Old 03-02-2018
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

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Originally Posted by mstern View Post
I've never seen that before! Cool!



I clicked on one of the hits that produced, thinking it might be the article I referenced earlier. No joy in that sense, but I think this particular article encapsulates a lot of what you all have been saying about the pros and cons of cats vs. monos in a very concise, readable format.



https://www.cruisingworld.com/sailboats/why-cat


[emoji1303]good article!


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post #402 of 577 Old 03-02-2018
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

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I wonder if M&M actually like designing the new Leopards? I’m sure it’s a paycheck but at the end of the day you have to look at what you’ve done and feel some pride.
Funny, I have thought the same thing. M&M seem to have work coming out their ears, with radical new designs, expensive performance models, and an active professional racing design group. I was surprised to see them start to do production catamaran design, but maybe that payed exceptionally well or let them expand. Similarly, VPLP have been doing Lagoon design forever, while maintaining their well-known performance and racing work.

Maybe for both, it is the bread and butter that allow them to have the gravy.

M&M's Leopard work seems to actually be trying to do something right. VPLP's recent Lagoon work makes me think they somehow lost the rights to their name/company.

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post #403 of 577 Old 03-02-2018
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

It’s interesting to me you see the same dichotomy in power and mono design as in cat. In power you see massive wide heavy trawlers like Norhavn, Selene, Cape Scott and Seaton but on the other side FPBs from newly retired Dashews, LRC 58s, Ed Joys Lyman Morse Ranger and the like. Narrow and light so easily driven versus heavy and wide built like a brick ****e house. Monos with the pizza pie above water profiles but these boats are really narrow at water plane and light once heeled versus the brick outhouse mentality of “classic” design. Sure there are outliers like the narrow heavy cherubinis but you get the gist of what I’m saying. Given all boats are comprimises you either stay in the water and carry three sets of spares, huge tankage, enough tools to build a boat let alone fix it or float on the water and forgo the museum furniture wood interior and a few toys.
Same dichotomy occurs with ride. Been on heavy displacement trawlers and monos in a seaway. They shoulder the waves aside and don’t stall smacking into them but they do roll. Very different on performance multis or modern long range narrow aluminum trawlers where your feet go airborne if you’re not prudent. Still think the wide hulled multis are the worst of both worlds.
Have had occasion to be in a seaway on the light boats. Without ever recalling any banging into things when you strip you find black and blues on out side of arms, legs and hips. Admittedly I’m a klutz but it’s a different mindset when moving around. Neither is better just different. We were loaned a tri from a friend who owns a multihull dealership in Wareham for a week. I loved it. Wife hated it. The above links mentioned noise down below but she found the singing of the rigging when going at speed most disconcerting when on deck. Different strokes for different folks and different boats for different sailors.

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post #404 of 577 Old 03-02-2018
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

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We were loaned a tri from a friend who owns a multihull dealership in Wareham for a week. I loved it. Wife hated it. The above links mentioned noise down below but she found the singing of the rigging when going at speed most disconcerting when on deck.
Was it synthetic rigging? We were recently anchored next to a new catamaran with all synthetic rigging and that stuff howled in the wind. I thought they were running a loud generator or engine. The owners said at times it was so loud in the aft staterooms that they slept in the smaller forward bunk. This doesn't seem right to me, and something that should be addressed, but maybe it is the nature of synthetic rigging? We have dyneema runners that sing when loaded, but they are just bare dyneema. The catamaran had a shroud of some type over their rigging.

Otherwise, I don't see why normal steel rigging would make more noise on a trimaran or catamaran than a monohull. Ours doesn't, and I've never heard it from others.

On the other hand, if it was normal whistling due to wind speed because the boat was going very fast, then that is probably just inherent with going fast.

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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

Going back to our earlier conversation about rig design with capsize limits in mind...this is from the Cruising World article linked by someone above. It's from a guy who has done 14K miles on his Dolphin 460...

Quote:
That said, one must exercise prudent seamanship when heading offshore in a cat. Harriet and I know that it's "game over, wait for rescue" if we're stupid enough to flip the boat. However, on Hands that would mean flying a full main and jib, sheeted tight, in 50-plus knots of wind on the beam-but note that the main shroud is designed to fail before the boat can be overturned. And let's get real: If our seamanship is that bad, we shouldn't be out there. On any boat.
So at least Dolphin cats apparently DO design the shroud strength with capsize forces in mind.

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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

There was also criticism from observation of a monohull sailor (either in this thread or another) about how uncomfortable cats "look" at anchor. Here is that question answered in this same CW article from above from a guy who actually knows for sure...

Quote:
3 Questions We Wish People Would Ask

1. How's a cat at anchor?
Considering that most cruisers spend 99 percent (OK, maybe only 98 percent) of their time at anchor, this isn't a dumb question. The simple answer is: Cats shine at anchor. They don't roll; when the dinner plates go flying on the monohull next door, the worst you'll get is a waddle. At anchor or on a mooring with a bridle led to the tip of each bow, cats barely "sail" like a monohull can. On Hands, we rode out a gale on a mooring to leeward of a 44-foot performance cruising monohull. While they tacked continually through 140 degrees, sailing back and forth, heeling to each gust, we tacked through only 30 degrees and stayed flat. Also, all cats have a safe-at-sea, convenient, out-of-the-way spot between the sterns for hoisting and stowing the ship's tender. And finally, the "loading dock" cutaway-stern design of modern cats means that tender-to-boat access is superior to that of most monohulls.
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

And finally, this...

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3. Would you go back to a monohull?
No-and we haven't met any cat sailors who would. The first time Harriet and I went long-distance cruising, in the 1980s, we sailed a 15,000-mile route three-quarters of the way around the Pacific on board a heavy-displacement, full-keeled cutter. When we decided in 2006 to go cruising again, we approached the question of which type of boat to get with an open mind. After a lot of research that included hands-on testing, we chose two hulls-and we're glad we did. But since then, we've found that there's an inevitable one-two combination of ignorance and prejudice that cat owners run up against. Ours occurred when a veteran cruiser took a tour of Hands-during which he referred to our hulls as "pontoons"-and ended up announcing, "I could never get a cat. They just aren't real boats."

But the majority of monohull sailors are indeed curious, if cautious, about cats for cruising. They wonder, while trying to sift through anti-cat myths and pro-cat hyperbole, about these odd-looking craft. Cat sailors, meanwhile, have already discovered that there's another way to go cruising. They know that it's possible to sail flat and fast and safe and to cruise with all the comforts of home. So is it crazy for cruising sailors to consider buying two hulls instead of one? The journey starts with an open mind.
https://www.cruisingworld.com/sailboats/why-cat

Yep - I'll take the word of those who know. It's enough for me.
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

Beautiful boat, incredible footage, great music...

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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

It's all good smackdaddy, but put me in that scene at half my age and I could have a great time on a raft.
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post #410 of 577 Old 03-03-2018
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

Quote:
anti-cat myths and pro-cat hyperbole
Perfect description of 80% of this thread.

Rick S., Swarthmore, PA
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