Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs - Page 51 - SailNet Community
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post #501 of 577 Old 03-08-2018
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

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A few years ago I bought a Gemini 105mc , moving from Hunter 33 which I had a wonderful time on for 7 years. The Gemini is smaller than a lot of the boats being discussed, but it is a whole lot more spacious than the hunter, and has turned out to be ideal for my wife and I.

Once the idea of potentially owning a multihull got stuck in my head, I spent a lot of time researching on the internet, including the forums of course. There were a load of opinions out there. There was the 'you'll die a horrible death bobbing upside down' camp. Also there was the 'cats are a horrilbe idea, the motion is awful, they cant go upwind, etc. camp. Opposing them was some enthusiasts, and also a small number of cat owners who shared their experiences. I assumed the latter were the most credible (otherwise I'd be paralyzed with fear of an upside down death After this research and a whole lot of shopping I decided to take the plunge. Thanks to all those owners who shared their experiences, without you it is very possible I wound't have taken the leap. So I thought i'd share my own experience for those who could benefit.

Here's how it's been so far:
1. I'mreally happy with the increased space and comfort, perfect for my cruising habits (a few weeks a year cruising plus weekends and daysails with my wife and i plus guests or my buddies and i) or daysails with crew ranging from single handed to 15 people.
2. It's plenty seaworthy, and handles our interesting seas and abundant wind in my neighbourhood (cape breton, brasdor lakes, gulf of st lawrence, pei, nfld) every bit as well as my previous monohulls.
3. I love the speed compare to my 33 ft monohull. 6 or 7 knots tight to the wind, crack off a little and 8 or 9 knots is easy if you have breze. 10-11 max sustained when everything is right and wind is howling.
4. upwind performance is comparable to any other ordinary cruising monohull that i've sailed on. Points a little better than the hunter (not a performance boat but a comparison all the same)
5. it fits nicely in the travellift at our club which really simplifies the overall ownership experience and reduces cost.
6. hard dodger is awesome for shade in hot summer days or in bad weather. canvas cockpit enclosure is phenomenal in colder weather in shoulder season (i manage to get 6 months out of season, from mid may to late november)
7 it is so much easier on passages with minimal heeling. You don't fight weather helm and can steer with one finger (takes getting used to as you have to rely more on instruments and sail observations to trim)
8 what can i say about on anchor ... brilliant. when rafted, most often the go to boat.
9 I'm pleased to say that, within reason, everything they say about not spilling drinks in a seaway is true
10 huge storage space compared to the hunter.
11 Kick up centerboards and rudder give it an incredibly shallow draft that lets me travel in shallow water with greatly reduced worries, and to anchor in way more places.
12 I love the bridgedeck diesel and steerable driveleg (point of contention with some I know). way more maneuverable than my old shaft drive mono. No barnalces or corrosion or drag while sailing. I did a mod on it adding power tilt/trim which made it way more convenient.
13. Dont have to go down a companionway while heeled to get refreshments from fridge. Did i mention they don't spill - oh yeah, i already did so

In fact I can really say that i dont have any regrets at all about making the move (which is really wonderful to be able to say because my last boat was a great experience as well).

Hope this is helpful to anyone thinking about buying a smaller cruising cat like the Gemini.
Awesome post! Thanks for the insight into what we are now believing regarding multi-hulls.

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post #502 of 577 Old 03-08-2018
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

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Another great video of an older cat in heavy seas...

Sailing Bare Poles in Heavy Seas

The woman on the wheel is doing a great job steering and the boat is well in control - and the comfort and stability from the lack of roll you'd get on a mono is very evident. But I'd certainly go for the AP. I'm coming to believe that an AP is a very important piece of kit on these babies!
Smack I saw all the videos of the Pilgrim... a great little catamaran and doing the things it's designed for... a mono would never do some of the sailing the Pilgrim has gone and survived.

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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

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40' is probably my sweetspot. And budget depends on a lot of things - obviously. For example, with the way the used cat market is right now (used prices somewhat inflated by historical prices) - I might still go with a new boat. Prices are coming down significantly as demand and production increase. So we'll see.
Smack... A 'very good' price for a FP Lucia 40.... but you'll need to update the ole passport.

2018 Fountaine Pajot Lucia 40 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

[quote=guitarguy56;2051417506]Smack... A 'very good' price for a FP Lucia 40.... but you'll need to update the ole passport.

The price is for 50% ownership. "client looking for a project partner to 50% finance a brand new Fountaine Pajot Lucia 40"
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post #505 of 577 Old 03-08-2018
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

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I want to get a bit more information on this from the article I linked above...



It's been discussed a bit above, but I'm still trying to figure out what the "most effective" overall solution/compromise is. Intuitively, I like the twin stern approach (just makes sense to me based on how I've sailed thus far) - but I do like the way Outremer has the hybrid approach (tillers with an elevated but not too elevated helm station)..



I like the redundancy of the tillers - though I do think it's a bit strange to have them there all the time. Are they easily removable and replaceable?

The FP Lucia has the raised deck-level helm as well - but it's not too raised (a semi-fly-bridge?)...



Then you get to the true fly-bridge like this Lagoon 52...



Now, apart from the fact that I'm just definitely not a fan of the fly-bridge, another thing I'm trying to figure out is how they are balancing the sail power and/or the higher-lever arm of that power as the boom goes up. I assume they are just making the main smaller? And if that's the case, it seems like you are giving up a HUGE amount of performance.

Thoughts?


Im not a fan of the fly bridge. Raises the CG and CE. More motion up there, limited visibility when job or screecher is set and a bunch of stairs to climb. Would be nice for evening cocktails in a calm anchorage.
I like the Outremer setup. The twin tillers to get the joy of a good sail when the weather is nice and behind the bulkhead when weather is snotty or maneuvering under power.
The problem with twin helms in the stern of the boat is possible lack of visibility if you cant see over the deck house and sun protection.
Single wheel behind the bulkhead is probably the most common installation but I really like the twin wheel setup of the Seawind.
Nice flat unobstructed pathway between the 2 helms and good interaction with people in the salon.


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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

Whatever direction I end up going with the helm, I imagine it's going to take some real time and effort to get used to "sensing" the opposite side of the boat from the wheel while maneuvering in tight quarters.
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

Another catamaran bashing its way across the Atlantic[emoji16]
https://youtu.be/hknsWJEVu-8


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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

smj - thanks for turning me onto those Young Punks in the Nautitech 40. They are great...


Now following.
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post #509 of 577 Old 03-11-2018
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

Though the graphics really suck in this article they are really informative and get at what makes a cat "good or bad" for cruising...

https://www.atlantic-cruising.com/good-cat-bad-cat/

Quote:
This page was put together from interviews with builders, designers, delivery captains, owners, charterers and from our own personal experiences delivering boats up and down the East Coast, offshore and vacations aboard with both experienced and inexperienced catamaran sailors. It’s both practical and technical. The information is not intended to support any particular product, though we obviously have chosen Fountaine Pajot because we believe it is a good example of our discoveries. Many people get referred to this page by other dealers and owners.
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This paper is designed to highlight the 4 important distinctions that will help you understand the builders’ intent. Is he offering an inshore or offshore Cat? The 4 important criteria to consider (aside from overall quality and integrity) are:

Stability. Beam to Length ratio and Static Stability
Pitching. The comfort factor
Bridge Deck Clearance
The Control Cockpit. Flybridge or deck-level?
Load Carrying Capacity
Quote:
What is Wrong With This Picture?


What’s missing is the bridge deck clearance! The single, most important factor is the load carrying capability! This affects everything else. Find out more below…
Quote:


Virtually all of the experienced builders, especially the European builders who must sail their boats transatlantic to their bases in the Caribbean, have settled on a minimum length to beam ratio (L/B) of approximately 50%. That’s a 20′ beam on a 40′ boat. As the boat gets larger, over 50′ or so, you can back off from this ratio a bit and still have adequate stability. These same experienced builders put enough beam into the individual hulls to give more than adequate load carrying ability. One sign of an older design (often resurrected these days and promoted as new) is narrow individual hulls, sometimes supplanted by (needed) extra beam because the hulls no longer have the required buoyancy.

(By the way, you can often recognize these designs from inside because the berths will be high and spanning the bridge deck‐‐the hulls don’t have enough volume to carry 4 full size double berths! Watch out!)
Lots to digest in this one...and I smell some typical BS here and there. But one of the more extensive I've seen.

Last edited by smackdaddy; 03-11-2018 at 03:59 PM.
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Re: Multihull Popularity and Interesting Designs

Okay - another question for the multi guys - daggerboards.

So, if I'm understanding this correctly, daggerboards are primarily for upwind sailing. And, from what I understand, they buy you another 10 or so of pointing - putting you in roughly the same range off the wind as a mono.

BUT - the arguments go that "well-designed" fixed-keels will get you within 5 of that, and that the added rigging, mechanics, etc. for daggerboards is not worth it in the long run unless most of your sailing will upwind and/or racing.

What do you guys think? If 10 - or especially 5 - is really all I'm losing, I'm not sure it's something I'd insist on.
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