Asking questions of the seller - Page 2 - SailNet Community
 11Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 33 Old 12-10-2018
Old soul
 
MikeOReilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 3,743
Thanks: 246
Thanked 182 Times in 170 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Re: Asking questions of the seller

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
...All you are going to do is sort out which boats aren't worth looking at. After that, it is up to you and your surveyor. If they won't let you nose around pretty good before the survey, walk on.
Exactly. How else do you weed out the potential from the junk? There are so many boats out there, and unless you’re budget is unlimited, you have to limit your search in some way. So of course ask lots of reasonable questions, especially if the ad is lacking (which is sometimes enough of a sign to discard the boat).

And unless you’re rich, surveying every interesting boat is simply not on. Heck, even the initial visit and inspection will cost time and money. Again, unless money is no issue, most of us can’t afford to waste it. Of course sellers will obfuscate, but few will outright lie about very specific questions. Usually (not always), how people answer questions tells you more than the information they provide.

Of course, not all sellers will know everything about their boats. And unfortunately most brokers will often have no idea. But in the former case an honest “I don’t know” is still a useful answer. When a broker didn't get answers to my reasonable questions, then this boat quickly got removed from my 'possible' list.

I don’t think I’d be asking about oil change or impeller schedules, although I suppose a clear answer on that gives you a good idea of maintenance quality. Bottom paint, engine hoses, heat exchanger … all part of a more detailed inspection and possible survey. I asked about state of the boat, and its history. How old is the standing rigging? How has the boat been used (raced? Circumnavigation?) Have there been any hard groundings, flooding/sinking? Are there any deck or hull leaks? How many hours on the engine?

Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MikeOReilly is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 33 Old 12-10-2018
Barquito
 
Barquito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 3,316
Thanks: 1
Thanked 87 Times in 86 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Re: Asking questions of the seller

I think it would be more effective to have a free-flowing conversation with the seller. You can have your list tucked away, and try to get to everything in the natural flow of conversation. A broker will go out of his way to NOT know any of the bad things about the boat.

Valiant 32
Barquito is online now  
The Following User Says Thank You to Barquito For This Useful Post:
davidpm (12-10-2018)
post #13 of 33 Old 12-10-2018
bell ringer
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: on way toward New orleans
Posts: 4,030
Thanks: 9
Thanked 105 Times in 98 Posts
Rep Power: 11
 
Re: Asking questions of the seller

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post

I wonder just how much a seller would be willing to divulge.
Guess it depends a lot on"
- are you asking before or after the money has been exchanger

But truthfully if you ask questions before the deal and they wouldn't answer it's a "run, don't walk away" signal.
MikeOReilly likes this.

Don't blow air up my rear, be useful and blow it at the sails!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Don0190 is online now  
 
post #14 of 33 Old 12-10-2018 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
davidpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 5,032
Thanks: 517
Thanked 90 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Re: Asking questions of the seller

Thank you all for your considered responses. Many of you recommend talking to the seller but so far I get to talk to the broker only and they seem to not know much or confuse details from one boat to the next.

The lesson from the Icarus story is not about human failing.
It is a lesson about the limitations of wax as an adhesive.
If you have an engineering problem solve it.
davidpm is offline  
post #15 of 33 Old 12-11-2018
Old soul
 
MikeOReilly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 3,743
Thanks: 246
Thanked 182 Times in 170 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Re: Asking questions of the seller

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidpm View Post
Thank you all for your considered responses. Many of you recommend talking to the seller but so far I get to talk to the broker only and they seem to not know much or confuse details from one boat to the next.
Yes … this is why I say a broker is often an impediment in the sales process at the lower, or even mid, end. For relatively low priced boats (approx. anything under the $50K mark), a broker simply isn’t making enough money from the sale to be able to invest very much effort. So we get this half-assed effort that serves no one.

I truly wish brokers would simply refuse to represent these kinds of boat. Either that, or commit to providing the full service potential buyers need.

One option I tried was to ask the broker to put you in direct communication with the owner. The broker’s fear is that they’ll be cut out the deal. If you can assure them this won’t happen, then they may actually be happy to make the connection.

Of course, many won’t allow this. In these cases, I would move on to other boats. There are many more boats out there. There’s no reason to deal with people who won’t give you the necessary information you require.

Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
MikeOReilly is online now  
post #16 of 33 Old 12-11-2018
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 85
Thanks: 7
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Rep Power: 2
 
Re: Asking questions of the seller

If I was a seller and I received a list like that I would be a bit cautious. It would make me think this was going to be a fussy buyer that asks a ton of questions and takes up time, but never closes the deal. As a buyer, a good look at the boat followed by a survey should be more than sufficient.
CrispyCringle is online now  
post #17 of 33 Old 12-11-2018 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
davidpm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Madison
Posts: 5,032
Thanks: 517
Thanked 90 Times in 80 Posts
Rep Power: 12
 
Re: Asking questions of the seller

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrispyCringle View Post
If I was a seller and I received a list like that I would be a bit cautious. It would make me think this was going to be a fussy buyer that asks a ton of questions and takes up time but never closes the deal. As a buyer, a good look at the boat followed by a survey should be more than sufficient.
that thought occurred to me.

Maybe after an offer was refused the seller may be willing to answer a couple more questions to brag about how well they took care of the boat.

Of if the questions reflected poor maintenance may be to reconsider the refusal.

The lesson from the Icarus story is not about human failing.
It is a lesson about the limitations of wax as an adhesive.
If you have an engineering problem solve it.

Last edited by davidpm; 12-11-2018 at 10:43 PM.
davidpm is offline  
post #18 of 33 Old 12-12-2018
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 19,071
Thanks: 82
Thanked 534 Times in 511 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: Asking questions of the seller

I thought those questions were pretty basic and non-threatening, but not all that helpful. Why would you need to know what bottom paint was used, in order to make an offer? You can ask that during survey and prior to acceptance. Fuel hose leaks and motor mounts can be checked yourself. One of the first things I would do is put in a new impeller (and all other consumables) so I don't really care when they did it last.

Most sellers hired a broker because they don't have the time or desire to get directly involved. But you should ask questions until you're satisfied with the story. The details get screwed up by the brokers for sure, but a story develops on how well cared for she was.

Ask to see the maintenance logs. Not every owner keeps them. You'll want to see lots of routine stuff happening.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
post #19 of 33 Old 12-12-2018
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Nanaimo BC
Posts: 695
Thanks: 0
Thanked 39 Times in 39 Posts
Rep Power: 3
 
Re: Asking questions of the seller

I take good care of our boat but I do not keep written records of it...that doesn't make it a poor purchase for someone else.
RegisteredUser likes this.
paulinnanaimo is online now  
post #20 of 33 Old 12-12-2018
Learning the HARD way...
 
eherlihy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston / Ft Myers Area
Posts: 6,598
Thanks: 386
Thanked 278 Times in 273 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Re: Asking questions of the seller

One question: can you provide me with the operation and maintenance records of this vessel since you have owned it?

If the answer is "no" then plan on a bottom strip, barrier coat and paint job (~$3500) and a separate mechanical survey (~$500) in addition to the pre-purchase survey. Tell the broker that these costs will be deducted from your offer in order to motivate the seller to look... or simply walk away.

Because David is a sailing instructor, I assume that he can figure out the condition of the sails... A new suit of sails would cost between $5K and $7K.

[EDIT] adding that the costs above are based on my experience with my 35-foot boat.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

USCG Licensed OUPV Captain, ASA 101/103/104/105/106/114/118 Instructor - Also certified in Marine Electrical Systems


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by eherlihy; 12-14-2018 at 12:10 PM.
eherlihy is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question about brokers and private seller boats josrulz Boat Review and Purchase Forum 20 08-21-2008 03:01 PM
Is this seller legit? eggman2001 Boat Review and Purchase Forum 32 02-12-2008 03:37 PM
Boat seller steers clear of slow sales (Florida Today) NewsReader News Feeds 0 03-11-2007 03:15 AM
Buyer-seller etiquette? bmcald Boat Review and Purchase Forum 6 09-04-2002 01:43 AM
Buyer's and Seller's Responsiblities Sue & Larry Buying a Boat Articles 0 10-09-1999 08:00 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome