3 Things you DON'T like about the boat you own. - SailNet Community
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post #1 of 31 Old 01-25-2019 Thread Starter
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3 Things you DON'T like about the boat you own.

This thread is for mostly for people who have owned their boat for a number of years.

What aspects of the design do you not like?

Were you aware of these deficits before you purchased or did they reveal themselves over time as you used the boat?

Are these "deficits" inspiring you to look for another boat which doesn't have the same? Of have you learned to accept them?

Were there features you DIDN'T like but bought anyway and learned they were really not a deficit?

Have you been able to DIY rectify the deficits or minimize them in any way?
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post #2 of 31 Old 01-25-2019
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Re: 3 Things you DON'T like about the boat you own.

What aspects of the design do you not like?
Mid-boom sheeting and subsequently the traveller position. My boat did not come with a full head, just porta-potti.

Were you aware of these deficits before you purchased or did they reveal themselves over time as you used the boat?
Yes.

Are these "deficits" inspiring you to look for another boat which doesn't have the same? Of have you learned to accept them?
No.

Were there features you DIDN'T like but bought anyway and learned they were really not a deficit?
The head and the mainsheet.

Have you been able to DIY rectify the deficits or minimize them in any way?
Larger blocks for the mainsheet, updated traveller, and added MSD head that will have a pump out.
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Re: 3 Things you DON'T like about the boat you own.

What aspects of the design do you not like?
a) 6'-3" draft
b) cheap toilet
c) cabinet cutout for stove narrow limits severely upgrade options
d) fuel tank capacity
e) water tank capacity

Were you aware of these deficits before you purchased or did they reveal themselves over time as you used the boat?

a) 6'-3" draft - YES could have gotten shoal draft or wing keel
b) cheap toilet - NO, didn't know about heads at the time
c) cabinet cutout for stove narrow limits severely upgrade options - NO didn't realize
d) fuel tank capacity - NO didn't understand the limitation
e) water tank capacity- NO didn't understand the limitation

Are these "deficits" inspiring you to look for another boat which doesn't have the same? Of have you learned to accept them? NO, I accept and work with them

Were there features you DIDN'T like but bought anyway and learned they were really not a deficit?

High freeboard
Deck stepped mast

Have you been able to DIY rectify the deficits or minimize them in any way?

replaced the head

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post #4 of 31 Old 01-25-2019
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Re: 3 Things you DON'T like about the boat you own.

Hey,

Interesting. I'll provide information on three boats. The 'design defects' I list aren't really defects from the manufacturer or designer, but are defects for my intended usage.

1. 1986 Newport 28.
Primary use: Day sailing on the Long Island Sound. Weekend trips with family of 5

Defects: Too small. This was my first 'big boat' and allowed my family and me to sail to destinations, spend a night or two, and then sail home. After doing that for a few years I wanted to travel further and spend more nights aboard. The boat was too small for that.

Solution:next boat.

2. Boat 1986 O'day 35.
Primary use: Day sailing on the long Island Sound. Weekend or long cruises with family and friends. The Newport was too small for longer trips. The O'day 35 was great for those trips. My family and I had fun trips to Montauk Point, New York City, Huntington, Connecticut etc.

Defect: Mediocre to poor sailing performance. This boat came with the shoal keel, 3 blade fixed prop, and old sails. I thought the shoal keel would be good for anchoring close to the beach for swimming and overnights (and it was). I bought new sails, which did help performance, but the shoal keep and 3 blade prop just didn't allow for great sailing performance. When I was doing cruises with my family the sailing performance didn't bother me but over time we did less trips and I started doing some racing. I thought of spending more money to improve sailing (folding prop, etc) but decided it wasn't worth it.

Defect: High maintenance costs: This boat was getting old. The motor had over 5000 hours on it. Everything worked but the maintenance costs were high.

Solutions: Next boat

As my kids got older they decided that spending a week on a small boat was not their idea of a vacation. I get it. Since I had been doing more racing (on other boats) I put a premium on sailing performance. However, I still like to spend a weekend or so aboard and I do like to be comfortable. That led to this.

Boat: 2002 C&C 110. Primary Use: Day sailing on the Long Island Sound, casual racing, weekend cruising.
Main goal of this boat: Great sailing performance. Comfortable, low maintenance.

Defect: Traveler location. The C&C 110 came with the traveler in 1 of 3 locations: Over the companionway, on the bridgedeck, or right in front of the wheel. My boat came with it located on the bridge deck. This was bad for me because I could not reach it from the wheel and it blocked access to the cabin. I sailed the boat like that for season one and didn't like it any better.
Solution: Move the traveler aft, right in front of the wheel. Bonus: I double ended the sheet by adding a cam cleat at the traveler. Now if I single hand I can trim the main from the wheel.

Defect: No bimini. The boom on the 110 is long and ends right in front of the wheel. The mainsail is large so the boom is low (when sailing upwind). This leaves no room for a bimini. At anchor I put up an umbrella for shade but it does not work as well as a bimini would.

At this point in my life the C&C is the right boat for me. I plan on retiring in 5 years and then doing more cruising. I don't think the C&C will be the right boat for that. The solution will be a different boat.

Barry
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Deep Blue C, 2002 C&C 110
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Re: 3 Things you DON'T like about the boat you own.

rounded corners in cockpit aren't good to sit in
2 "smaller" heads instead of 1 real good head
aftship main queen berth instead of a fore/aft with access from both sides

overall after 8 years owning and 2.5 years living/cruising on our boat we still like it
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post #6 of 31 Old 01-25-2019
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Re: 3 Things you DON'T like about the boat you own.

1982 Mirage 33


What aspects of the design do you not like?
-Stemhead was weak and known to fail (dismasting probability)
-13hp engine on a 33ft boat (Yanmar 2GMf13)
-Holding tank is too small! We went on a trip last summer with 5 onboard and the tank was filled before the sun set on day 1.


Were you aware of these deficits before you purchased or did they reveal themselves over time as you used the boat?
-Yes
-Yes
-No, didn't realize til trip #1


Are these "deficits" inspiring you to look for another boat which doesn't have the same? Of have you learned to accept them?
-Not changing, we love the boat!


Were there features you DIDN'T like but bought anyway and learned they were really not a deficit?
-The autopilot was ANCIENT and even the manual looked like handwritten photocopies from the 80's. It actually works great!


Have you been able to DIY rectify the deficits or minimize them in any way?
-Stemhead replaced
-The engine actually carries the boat just fine in all but the heaviest weather we see, and even then it still makes headway. No issues docking either. If we lived near major tidal changes or with heavy following seas into a port then the low HP may be a concern, but for Great Lakes no problem!
-I plan to expand the holding tank, and then install a Y valve and macerator to a thru-hull -in preparation for coastal cruising our way to the Carrib one day-. *We aren't planning to self-dump in the Great Lakes* but need an ocean plan for down the road.
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post #7 of 31 Old 01-25-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: 3 Things you DON'T like about the boat you own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryL View Post
Hey,

Interesting. I'll provide information on three boats. The 'design defects' I list aren't really defects from the manufacturer or designer, but are defects for my intended usage.

1. 1986 Newport 28.
Primary use: Day sailing on the Long Island Sound. Weekend trips with family of 5

Defects: Too small. This was my first 'big boat' and allowed my family and me to sail to destinations, spend a night or two, and then sail home. After doing that for a few years I wanted to travel further and spend more nights aboard. The boat was too small for that.

Solution:next boat.

2. Boat 1986 O'day 35.
Primary use: Day sailing on the long Island Sound. Weekend or long cruises with family and friends. The Newport was too small for longer trips. The O'day 35 was great for those trips. My family and I had fun trips to Montauk Point, New York City, Huntington, Connecticut etc.

Defect: Mediocre to poor sailing performance. This boat came with the shoal keel, 3 blade fixed prop, and old sails. I thought the shoal keel would be good for anchoring close to the beach for swimming and overnights (and it was). I bought new sails, which did help performance, but the shoal keep and 3 blade prop just didn't allow for great sailing performance. When I was doing cruises with my family the sailing performance didn't bother me but over time we did less trips and I started doing some racing. I thought of spending more money to improve sailing (folding prop, etc) but decided it wasn't worth it.

Defect: High maintenance costs: This boat was getting old. The motor had over 5000 hours on it. Everything worked but the maintenance costs were high.

Solutions: Next boat

As my kids got older they decided that spending a week on a small boat was not their idea of a vacation. I get it. Since I had been doing more racing (on other boats) I put a premium on sailing performance. However, I still like to spend a weekend or so aboard and I do like to be comfortable. That led to this.

Boat: 2002 C&C 110. Primary Use: Day sailing on the Long Island Sound, casual racing, weekend cruising.
Main goal of this boat: Great sailing performance. Comfortable, low maintenance.

Defect: Traveler location. The C&C 110 came with the traveler in 1 of 3 locations: Over the companionway, on the bridgedeck, or right in front of the wheel. My boat came with it located on the bridge deck. This was bad for me because I could not reach it from the wheel and it blocked access to the cabin. I sailed the boat like that for season one and didn't like it any better.
Solution: Move the traveler aft, right in front of the wheel. Bonus: I double ended the sheet by adding a cam cleat at the traveler. Now if I single hand I can trim the main from the wheel.

Defect: No bimini. The boom on the 110 is long and ends right in front of the wheel. The mainsail is large so the boom is low (when sailing upwind). This leaves no room for a bimini. At anchor I put up an umbrella for shade but it does not work as well as a bimini would.

At this point in my life the C&C is the right boat for me. I plan on retiring in 5 years and then doing more cruising. I don't think the C&C will be the right boat for that. The solution will be a different boat.

Barry
Very thoughtful response! The intended type of sailing of course drives design.. and size will drive "comfort" issues. With so many needs all boats will be compromises and excel at some uses and fall short for others.

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post #8 of 31 Old 01-25-2019
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Re: 3 Things you DON'T like about the boat you own.

What aspects of the design do you not like?
1) Several hoses are concealed behind/within grid liners that are impossible to remove for servicing the hose
2) 15 foot run of hose from aft head to aft holding tank
3) fuel tank capacity
4) discontinuous rig (turnbuckles at spreader level in addition to deck level) makes it difficult to tun the rig without a professional rigger
5) Pullman owners berth is a big improvement over most v-berths but still a lot less comfortable than a centerline queen.

Were you aware of these deficits before you purchased or did they reveal themselves over time as you used the boat?
We were aware but didnt necessarily fully think through how they would affect us.

Are these "deficits" inspiring you to look for another boat which doesn't have the same? Of have you learned to accept them?
Currently very happy with the boat.

Were there features you DIDN'T like but bought anyway and learned they were really not a deficit?
Two heads the forward head became our dedicated shower stall.
TV on board was dead set against the idea until we had one. Its actually a nice way to relax after a long day on the water.
In-mast furling all I ever heard was how horrible it is (and it definitely does affect pointing ability), but it makes shorthanded and singlehanded sailing incredibly easy.
Sugar scoop again heard they were horrible and the boat would be swamped. But weve never come close to being swamped and it makes swimming and dinghy boarding incredibly simple. Id never have another sailboat without one.

Have you been able to DIY rectify the deficits or minimize them in any way?
I have been slowly working through hosing replacements with help from other owners of same/similar models.

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Beneteau Oceanis 400
formerly Lippincott 30
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post #9 of 31 Old 01-25-2019
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Re: 3 Things you DON'T like about the boat you own.

The boat: an 87 O'day 35 deep keel

What aspects of the design do you not like?:
  • The curved traveler track and the traveler that was locked in position with pins
  • The lack of a mid-ship cleat
  • The rear of the electrical panel was not easily accessible for service.
  • I wish that the stern were beamier because the Admiral would like more space. The rear quarter berth is not useful for storing humans.

Were you aware of these deficits before you purchased or did they reveal themselves over time as you used the boat?
This is my first boat, so I wasn't aware of these things as issues. After sailing my boat for several years, and then teaching sailing on shool (cruising) boats for several years I attempted to address several of the issues;
  • Traveler - I upgraded the Nico-Fico traveler car, and added traveler controls from Garhauer. I wish now that I simply bought an entire new traveler from Garhauer, as it would have performed better and been $500 cheaper.
  • Mid-ship cleat - I added a Garhauer Genoa Track Cleat - but I would still prefer a bolted in place cleat. I just haven't yet done anything about it.
  • Electrical Panel - I installed a piano hinge, and then upgraded all of the connectors.
  • Beam - I've realized this over time.

Are these "deficits" inspiring you to look for another boat which doesn't have the same? Of have you learned to accept them?
There are other aspects of this vessel that I love, so I am not looking for another boat. Specifically;
  • The 5-foot 7-inch draft should enable me to transit the AICW and the Okeechobee Waterway to bring my boat from RI to Ft. Myers, FL.
  • The 47' air-draft allows me to go under the Port Mayaca Railroad Bridge
  • The boat performs well. Not that I do much racing, but I have whooped several newer Catalinas.
  • The boat came with a Vacuflush Head which, after I re-installed, I have come to LOVE.
  • The boat's original M25 is in great shape, has good compression, runs like a top, and is easy to source inexpensive parts for from tractor supply stores. (Kubota D850).
  • The engine burns 1/3 of a gallon per hour at cruising speed of 6kts. Combined with the 30-gallon tank, I have a range under power of over 500nm!

Were there features you DIDN'T like but bought anyway and learned they were really not a deficit?
  • The Vacuflush head - I knew nothing about it. It flushes with as little as 1 pint of fresh water per flush. After I re-plumbed the hoses to get rid of dips, and fixed a vacuum leak in the first year that I owned the boat, it has been flawless.
  • Because the head uses so little water, the 15-gallon holding tank is good for about 7-person-days. However, whenever I pump out, I always rinse the holding tank out because the contents are, uh, concentrated.

Have you been able to DIY rectify the deficits or minimize them in any way?
  • I can't do anything about the beam or creating more interior space.

The O'day 35 could theoretically sleep 6: 2 in the V-berth, 2 on the port pull out settee, 1 on the starboard settee, 1 in the rear quarter berth. The back of the setees lifts up to convert them into comfortable, roomy berths. However, the boat is easily handled by two, and great for up to four people. Five would be crowded, and six would be claustrophobic.


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Last edited by eherlihy; 01-27-2019 at 01:12 PM.
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post #10 of 31 Old 01-25-2019
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Re: 3 Things you DON'T like about the boat you own.

Guyfromthenorth
When we brought our boat from Georgian Bay to the Straight of Georgia we had similar holding tank issues to what you will have. Rather than add the complications of a Y valve I simply added one hose from the holding tank to a through hull just above the waterline. All effluent is flushed to the holding tank and then pumped overboard when required. Not necessarily better but simpler.
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