Venting about homemade boat registration in Pennsylvania - Page 2 - SailNet Community
 34Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #11 of 54 Old 03-29-2019
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 19,071
Thanks: 82
Thanked 534 Times in 511 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: Venting about homemade boat registration in Pennsylvania

There are some weird references and presumptions above that seem to be confusing the matter.

If you choose to document your vessel, with the USCG, that document serves as your federal form of title to your boat. Some refer to it as a federal form of "registration", which isn't wrong, but the real purpose is to show who owns the vessel and provide a single point to file liens. If they OP has their new documentation, then title has successfully transferred and you don't need anything from any State.

State registration is imposed as a permit to use your property within their borders for longer than a typical transient might stay. Each State defines that timeframe for themselves. That time frame can be different for out of state residents and in-state residents. For example, if I visit another state, I may get a 90 day period to move on or need to register. That State's own residents may be required to register on the same day they arrive. Each State's rules are different. The bottom line is, you don't get to register in one State and get any long term rights in another.

Another point of fact that confuses many is the hailport that you include on your USCG documentation. This hailport has absolutely no relevance, whatsoever, to where the boat is kept, where you live, where you have permission to be, or anything else. It simply must be a valid city/state in the US, even a land-locked place. It has no impact on State registration, nor accrues any rights to be anywhere.
hpeer likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12 of 54 Old 03-29-2019
██▓▓▒▒░░▒▒▓▓██
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,585
Thanks: 11
Thanked 249 Times in 244 Posts
Rep Power: 15
   
Re: Venting about homemade boat registration in Pennsylvania

I think john nailed it. From what we've heard, an intrastate registration transfer may not be possible. OK, so screw the state.

The boat is federally documented, which means pretty much every state that requires additional "motor vehicle" registration will be glad to take the taxes (I think South Dakota also does that remotely) and register it elsewhere.

And then presumably the PA laws are something like "all vessels within the waters...for a period of xx days within....must be registered". Could be 183 days in a calendar year, could be 90 consecutive says in the waters (that's NY law) but whatever it is, enjoy sailing the boat with prairie state registration until PA laws require it to be transferred back within state. And of course, they only charge any additional sales/excise taxes due, the other state keeps the money they already got.

They don't want to play nice? OK, give 'em their own game.
hellosailor is offline  
post #13 of 54 Old 03-29-2019
Member
 
Teamstone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 39
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Venting about homemade boat registration in Pennsylvania

Quote:
Originally Posted by jwoytek View Post
We live near Pittsburgh, which makes ports in Ohio about equidistant to Erie, PA, where the boat has been all her life and where we are planning to keep her. An out-of-state registration is certainly not out of the question at this point!
Normally if you have a Coast Guard Registered boat you don't also do the state registration. You are subject to the tax, but no reg.

Tom AbacoMyst
Teamstone is offline  
 
post #14 of 54 Old 03-29-2019 Thread Starter
Always learning...
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New Kensington, PA
Posts: 49
Thanks: 5
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Venting about homemade boat registration in Pennsylvania

Hey, so I'm going to reply here to cover a bunch of replies. First, thanks for the replies. At least I feel like I'm not totally yelling into the wind.

As Minnewaska stated, the USCG documentation != state registration. PA requires that boats be registered in the state IF they are spending the majority of their time in PA waters. Pennsylvania recognizes a stay > 60 days as "majority of time," so if I did end up registering the boat in another state (likely Ohio, as they are physically close, and have reasonable registration requirements), I would technically have about 60 days after launch to get the boat registered in Pennsylvania. Registration doesn't care where you live--it cares about where the boat lives.

Pennsylvania Fish and Boat is pretty on top of policing boats in their jurisdiction. They're generally nice people, and I've only had good dealings with them in the past. I wouldn't want to test their patience (nor their lenience) by registering the boat in another state with the intention of flaunting the requirement to register the boat where she lives. I am looking at it as an option to buy me some time to either involve some legal types (if needed) or see if I can transfer an out-of-state registered "homemade" boat to Pennsylvania.

A "plan Z" is to actually keep the boat at a port in Ohio. I would rather avoid that, though, as we have family in Erie, and being able to stay there and have more time with them was an important factor in deciding to keep a boat there in the first place. Keeping the boat about two hours away from there is not much better than just driving to Erie from home and would probably not help us to actually spend more time there.

Someone had mentioned that this is something the surveyor should have known. Since even the Fish and Boat folks acknowledged that they only started enforcing this rule quite recently, it probably wasn't a concern. I am going to contact the surveyor to make sure he knows that this is becoming an issue. I'd imagine that there aren't all that many larger sailboats in this area of Pennsylvania that are "homemade" and also in need of a survey.

I'm hoping we get a positive resolution to this next week. I have my fingers crossed.

jonathan
jwoytek is online now  
post #15 of 54 Old 03-29-2019 Thread Starter
Always learning...
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New Kensington, PA
Posts: 49
Thanks: 5
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Venting about homemade boat registration in Pennsylvania

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teamstone View Post
Normally if you have a Coast Guard Registered boat you don't also do the state registration. You are subject to the tax, but no reg.
Pennsylvania law requires that boats spending > 60 days in state waters be registered in the state. The USCG Certificate of Documentation serves as title to prove ownership, but does not satisfy the requirements for state registration. I do not have to get a PA title, as the USCG CoD takes the place of the state title.

S/V Pinniped
Jason 35
jwoytek is online now  
post #16 of 54 Old 03-29-2019
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 19,071
Thanks: 82
Thanked 534 Times in 511 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: Venting about homemade boat registration in Pennsylvania

Looks like the OP fully understands the issue and requirements of state reg vs fed doc. Many others in this thread do not seem to.

Every State I'm familiar with (only a handful, maybe 5 or 6) all require State registration of USCG documented vessels. RI does. However, if one's boat is documented, none of the states I'm familiar with require you to apply their State registration numbers to the bow. Perhaps that has some confused to think they aren't registered at all. The State always wants the money.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
post #17 of 54 Old 03-29-2019
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 19,071
Thanks: 82
Thanked 534 Times in 511 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: Venting about homemade boat registration in Pennsylvania

Idea for the OP.

Don't apply to transfer registration, from state to state, at all. Simply apply as if it had never been registered in any other state in the first place. You have your federal document to prove ownership.
jwoytek likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
post #18 of 54 Old 03-29-2019 Thread Starter
Always learning...
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New Kensington, PA
Posts: 49
Thanks: 5
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Rep Power: 0
 
Re: Venting about homemade boat registration in Pennsylvania

Quote:
Originally Posted by Minnewaska View Post
Idea for the OP.

Don't apply to transfer registration, from state to state, at all. Simply apply as if it had never been registered in any other state in the first place. You have your federal document to prove ownership.
I had briefly considered that, but, according to the FAQ entry that I just found the other day with the only mention of this policy anywhere: "The Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission (PFBC) will only accept applications from the original builder for their personal use for homemade boats...."

I'd love to hear the reasoning behind this from someone who actually knows. I didn't seem to find this kind of wording about homemade boats in neighboring states, though I may just be looking in the wrong places (as, apparently, it wasn't even well-publicized in my own state).

jonathan

S/V Pinniped
Jason 35
jwoytek is online now  
post #19 of 54 Old 03-29-2019
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 19,071
Thanks: 82
Thanked 534 Times in 511 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: Venting about homemade boat registration in Pennsylvania

I’d look up what they expect from the “original builder” and see if you can make that claim and provide it.

Since most components on a boat are simply installed and not built by the owner, I wonder if there’s enough leeway here to make the case that you just bought “boat load” of parts. IOW, what if it had been wrecked and you rebuilt it.

I’m not one to flaunt the law, as a rule. However, I’m sure they would gladly take your money, if you could figure out how to fit inside their box.
jwoytek likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
post #20 of 54 Old 03-29-2019
Senior Member
 
hpeer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Onboard
Posts: 1,144
Thanks: 12
Thanked 33 Times in 33 Posts
Rep Power: 15
 
Re: Venting about homemade boat registration in Pennsylvania

Just an idea but maybe the FAQ is wrong. And just because someone told you they are enforcing it does not make it so.

Perhaps get a copy of the enabling legislation, rule, whatever. Go to the source, read the document, see what it actually says. May help, may not.
jwoytek likes this.

33' Brewer, Murray 33, steel cutter
44' Pape, Steelmaid, cc steel cutter
hpeer is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Battery location and venting. Joel H. General Discussion (sailing related) 21 02-24-2013 05:40 PM
Isotherm SP system venting smurphny Gear & Maintenance 0 04-15-2012 03:37 PM
Bilge Blower Atomic 4 not venting to outside urbanfood Gear & Maintenance 19 03-13-2011 10:11 PM
Fuel tank venting kaniksu Gear & Maintenance 3 05-03-2009 07:20 PM
just venting. jbarros General Discussion (sailing related) 0 10-01-2003 02:46 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome