Newer SunCat vs older Hereschoff America - Page 3 - SailNet Community
 3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #21 of 23 Old 04-17-2019
Administrator
 
Jeff_H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 8,752
Thanks: 33
Thanked 429 Times in 359 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Newer SunCat vs older Hereschoff America

Charlie Wittholz designed a number of really nice small catboats. Probably his best known production catboat was the 18 foot Cape Cod Cat, built by Cape Cod Shipbuilding. These were pretty heavy boats since they were pretty fully ballasted for a Cape Cod style Catboat and fiberglass was heavier than the wooden versions. But Charlie also designed a number of similar sized catboats, that were lighter than the Cape Cod. When I was working for Charlie I drew up a simple tabernacle for the Wittholz 17 which was a plywood version of his Cape Cod catboat design. That boat had a wooden mast which made it a little simpler.

I mention this because if you find a cheaper alternative to the Suncat, but was concerned about erecting the mast, you might be able to have a sparmaker install a tabernacle to make raising and lowering the mast easier. One issue with catboat masts in tabernacles is that there are very steep angles to the shrouds and forestay and no backstay putting high loads on the tabernacle so it needs to be well engineered but it can be done.

Given their very high wetted surface, gaff sail plans, and large L/D's, in order to get decent light to moderate air sailing ability with a catboat, an SA/D in the range of 20 or above is required. Most traditional Cape Cod Catboats had SA/D's well above 20.

Good hunting,
Jeff


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Curmudgeon at Large- and rhinestone in the rough, sailing my Farr 11.6 on the Chesapeake Bay
Jeff_H is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 23 Old 04-17-2019
Senior Member
 
fallard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Mystic
Posts: 2,284
Thanks: 17
Thanked 80 Times in 79 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Re: Newer SunCat vs older Hereschoff America

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
Charlie Wittholz designed a number of really nice small catboats. Probably his best known production catboat was the 18 foot Cape Cod Cat, built by Cape Cod Shipbuilding. These were pretty heavy boats since they were pretty fully ballasted for a Cape Cod style Catboat and fiberglass was heavier than the wooden versions. But Charlie also designed a number of similar sized catboats, that were lighter than the Cape Cod. When I was working for Charlie I drew up a simple tabernacle for the Wittholz 17 which was a plywood version of his Cape Cod catboat design. That boat had a wooden mast which made it a little simpler.

I mention this because if you find a cheaper alternative to the Suncat, but was concerned about erecting the mast, you might be able to have a sparmaker install a tabernacle to make raising and lowering the mast easier. One issue with catboat masts in tabernacles is that there are very steep angles to the shrouds and forestay and no backstay putting high loads on the tabernacle so it needs to be well engineered but it can be done.

Given their very high wetted surface, gaff sail plans, and large L/D's, in order to get decent light to moderate air sailing ability with a catboat, an SA/D in the range of 20 or above is required. Most traditional Cape Cod Catboats had SA/D's well above 20.

Good hunting,
Jeff
Marshall Marine, maker of the 18' Sanderling catboat, offers a "mast hinge" option. See https://www.marshallcat.com/sanderling-options.

Since all of the ~18' fiberglas catboats are very similar (e.g., Herreshoff, Cape Cod, Menger), my assumption is that the engineering has been done by Marshall and would be applicable to any of these gaff-rigged cats. You should be able to procure parts from Marshall and have your catboat mast modified locally. BTW, the Sanderling, Herreshoff, and Menger (and probably the Cape Cod) catboats in the 17-19' range all had a single forestay. Some of the Hermann 17' cats IIRC had Marconi rigs requiring shrouds in addition to a forestay. Since traditional catboats have booms longer than the boat, traditional backstays (vs running backstays) wouldn't work.
fallard is online now  
post #23 of 23 Old 04-22-2019
Administrator
 
Jeff_H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Annapolis, Md
Posts: 8,752
Thanks: 33
Thanked 429 Times in 359 Posts
Rep Power: 10
     
Re: Newer SunCat vs older Hereschoff America

I don't know whether you saw this but the Chesapeake Maritime Museum had a Herreshoff America donated to the Museum and has it for sale here. #6126 Catboat Tillotson-Pearson 18' - Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum

Their prices are usually quite affordable for the type and condition of the boats that they are selling.

Jeff


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Curmudgeon at Large- and rhinestone in the rough, sailing my Farr 11.6 on the Chesapeake Bay
Jeff_H is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do you go newer smaller or older and larger for good caribbean? GCASKEW Boat Review and Purchase Forum 14 07-08-2012 12:15 AM
Sunsail Older Oceanis 373 or Newer Jeanneau 36i? EvanstonJohn Chartering 9 04-22-2010 08:32 AM
Older boat or newer boat - pros and cons Jcody2121 Cruising & Liveaboard Forum 9 03-14-2010 07:31 PM
buying older vs. newer dpierce Boat Review and Purchase Forum 3 08-29-2003 10:06 AM
Older or newer...what''s best gknopp Boat Review and Purchase Forum 4 05-14-2003 09:33 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome