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Ranger 23 or Catalina 22 for SF bay, suggestions/advice?
I'm in the market for a new (to me) small boat. Right now I'm between 2 boats that have caught my attention and I'm looking for opinions/advice on them. I would also be sailing in the San Fransisco Bay mainly, if possible might go out to the ocean occasionally.
Boat 1: 1973 Ranger 23 -$1200 Firm according to owner
Things that I see as pros:
-2 mainsails, one good one needs some repair
-125% genoa, 85% and 100% jib
-Spinnaker (with pole and lines)
-6hp Mercury outboard
-Shore power cable
-12 VDC battery & converter
-Running lights
-Cabin lights
Main con:
-Has not had new bottom paint for about 7 years, I'm worried about that extra cost and any issues from sitting in the water for that long.
-Will cost more to store in marina
Boat 2: 1974 Catalina 22- $1500, owner did not say firm price
Pros:
-Bottom paint finished last September
-Full set of sails
-Good rigging
-Newer motor, 2015 Tohatsu 6HP
-Smaller size so the docking fee will cost less (at my marina)
-Catalinas may have more parts available because of how many were made
Cons:
-Does not have as many sails or as much extra gear
-Smaller boat
-Does not have much of an interior, no cushions or sink.
So that's kind of what I'm looking at, sorry that its so long. I know that both are pretty similar size, I just don't want to get in over my head with cost too much, obviously both would cost me tons of money because they're boats. There is still the option of neither boat and I keep waiting! I'm open to suggestions and discussion!
The R-23 is a Gary Mull design and considered a fast boat for its length.
Faster than the C-22.
Either one would please you as long as you find a clean one that does not need a lot of work.
Just to make sure you are comparing like to like, do both boats have a fixed fin keel? (Most of the Cat 22 boats were built with swing keels, but not all.
Lots of wind and waves where you sail. Plan on replacing the standing rig if's older than 15 years.
I agree with O34, the Ranger is a better boat and the wind in the Bay is not something to trifle with, with old standing rigging. Both boats are very cheap, but can you afford the needed upgrades/repairs; bottom paint, new rigging, cushions, etc? They are both simple boats but not sure I would not suggest buying one without at least pulling the boat and looking at the keels if not a survey.
If the difference between a 22 foot and a 23-foot boat docking fees is a concern, you might want to reconsider boat ownership.:grin
The Ranger 23 is a better sailing boat than the Cat 22. Many are still being used in club racing and doing well. That plus the lack of cushions in the Cat 22 would make this an easy decision. But, these are old boats, so condition is everything.
There is no doubt that the Ranger 23 is a much better boat in pretty much every way meaning they were better built, they handle heavy and light air better, they are more forgiving, they have more a little more space in the cabin, and they perform better. That said, some of the the Catalina 22's have a pop-top that expand the space below. The Ranger 23 was one of Gary Mull's best designs done at a time when Gary Mull was one of the top designers in the world.
The cost of a bottom job is cheap compared to the cost to replace cushions and while Catalina parts are more readily available, the Ranger 23 had very few proprietary parts that you won't be able to replace from the usual marine sources.
While you may end up paying for an extra foot in the marina, the Ranger is actually 2 feet longer than than the Catalina and has a better modeled hull which goes a long way towards improving seaworthiness when wind and waves take a turn for the worse.
New cushions for the catalina 22 will cost more than the price of the boat.. The Ranger seems like a better deal, assuming general condition is the same otherwise. But not having bottom paint for 7 years I'm surprised you can even see the boat for all the vegetation on it..
Just because the anti fouling paint is years past needing to be renewed doesn't mean the owner hasn't been having the bottom cleaned on a regular basis. And to the OP- assuming that is the case, you might ask the seller to provide a recent condition report from his hull diver.
Yes, that's true. The Ranger 23 is highly regarded on San Francisco Bay. It weighs a lot more than a Catalina 22 and is much stiffer. You don't see very many Catalina 22's out in the central Bay or the Slot in the summer, but you do see R23's.
That's a very low price for an R23 in good condition. They are highly sought after. But they are all old. Condition is paramount. Inspect the boat carefully from bow to stern or you may be in for a lot of work. Take a careful look at the transom underneath the traveler.
Some interesting history of the Ranger 23: Arvel Gentry, a Boeing aeronautical engineer, owned a Ranger 23, Kittewake, which he outfitted with sensors and recording devices or quantify what was really happening with airstreams and the developmen of lift and drag forces on the sails. His work in the 70's through the 90's and beyond lead to development of modern sail theory. He worked on at least two America's Cup designs in the 1980's, IIRC. Gentry Sailing | Theory and Practice
If you buy the R23, PM me. I think I have copies of many years of Ranger 23 newsletters that he sent me, with many articles written by Arvel himself. He did a complete rebuild of Kittewake in the late 1990's or early 2000's and restored the boat to truly like-new condition.
I love my Catalina 22, but for you situation I think I'd want the Ranger. Unless you have to trailer it, that is.
I've never sailed a Ranger, but I just looked up the stats and it's over 1,000 lbs heavier than the C22, most of that being in the keel. It'd be nice to have that stiffness in the winds out there.
Beyond the righting moment, the kinetic energy of more weight to push through big waves. As you probably know, the C22 is so stable and forgiving that you can sail it in a good amount of wind but if you start hitting 5' waves then she just looses momentum.
The extra foot will make a difference (good) .
The Catalina might be a pop top (good for camping).
I vote for the Ranger . $1200. is a steel .
Back in the mid 80's we paid 5K for a O'Day 23' .
It's an extra two feet!
Cat 22: 21.50'
Ranger: 23.67'
Sailboatdata is a bit mixed up on their entry for the Catalina 22. They give the ballast and displacement for the fin keel version, but the draft (max and min) for the much more common swing keel.
I believe the numbers for the swing keel are 2,240 lbs with a 550 lbs keel. That gives a ballast ratio of 24.5% and makes the boat itself 1,690 lbs.
The ranger is 3,400 lbs with a 1,500 lbs keel. That gives a ballast ratio of 44.1% and makes the boat itself 1,900 lbs.
It's only one foot on the LWL but the R23 has a longer sailing waterline than the measured waterline. For all the reasons mentioned here, I would choose the Ranger for most windy coastal areas, like SF.
I have owned a 1974 R23 for 29 years and I still love it. Things to check: (1) The keel stub had some flex problems. Gary Mull gave advice on how to fix it and it's a pretty easy job. If you get it and want info, let me know. (2) Watch for leaks at the chainplates and fix it if you find them. I let mine get out of hand a couple years ago after I had a stroke and had to replace a bulkhead. Again, a doable fix but a little more labor intensive than the keel. (3) The original motor mount was replaced before I bought the boat but I've heard it isn't up to the weight of new 4-strokes. Easy to replace with a standard scissors type mount. I have one and it works fine. (4) Any boat that has been neglected in the water for years might have blisters. Unless there are hundreds it's a normal pull-out chore. The R23 is no more vulnerable than any boat of that vintage.
I'd go with a Mull design boat any day on the bay, but I'm biased because I have a Freedom 38 and a Newport 20. As someone else said, make sure you have good rigging. Might also need to upgrade the fittings. The bay can get pretty gusty and swelly from time to time. I'm aware of a R23 that is (was?) on a lien sale at my marina, if you're interested, though it may not be worth pursuing because I'm pretty sure it'll need a lot of work.
Thanks for the shout-out, Minnesail. I know that this is an old thread, but here are my two cents. One of my important purchase criteria was the trailer ability. That lead me to the swing keel designs. Before the Bay, I used to do a fair amount of sailing out of Santa Cruz. I even sailed round trip to Monterey. But I wouldn’t recommend going to Pt. Sur. The constant rigging and unrigging was a drag and I eventually sold the trailer and kept the boat at Jack London in Oakland and I sailed the Bay for years.
With tens of thousands made, there are a lot of after-market parts and upgrades available. I did the rigging upgrade as well as adding shims to the swing keel trunk to mitigate the keel slamming and rocking side to side when sailing in waves. You can also buy a lot of used boat parts and sails. You need a vang and a C22 of that vintage doesn’t have much of a traveler and I would invest in one that you can trim. You can buy an after market sliding galley. I just used an alcohol stove on a swing, gallon of water, and dish pan.
The boat doesn’t really have enough mass to punch through chop and maintain momentum in a beat. Usually that would mean slowing down but in larger ocean swells, the boat sometimes would loose headway as it tried to sail up and crest a wave. During the summer in the Bay, I’d follow the simple strategy of sailing up the city front and cross over to Sausalito at the Marina in order to minimize the time in the slot. I broached a few times while beam reaching across the Berkeley Flat. I also ruined an outboard when I got pooped by a boarding wave, breaking the motor mount in the process.
I loved my little C22. But I have to admit that I dad Santana 22 envy with their fixed keels and all that. I hate to say this, but if the two boats are in the same condition, I would go with the larger and fixed keel) Ranger. But if that deal falls through, the C22 is a really fun boat.
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