Outboards - Page 4 - SailNet Community
 35Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
post #31 of 85 Old 12-29-2019
Senior Member
 
Telesail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wherever the boat is
Posts: 141
Thanks: 2
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Outboards

Quote:
Originally Posted by RegisteredUser View Post
Maybe somebody who was bored or interested has made a graph of weight comparing range of elec to 4s at x speeds....

Its about the range...that limitation
Never had a 4 stroke and there is no comparison in range with a 2 stroke vs Elec. The maths is fairly simple. For 1kWh battery (entry level Torqeedo or ePropulsion) at full power (for me that is 6 knots) you have 1 hour and, depending on dinghy you have a range of 6 NM. However, run at half power (for me that is 5 knots) and you have 2 hours for a range of 10 NM.

For most people that is not enough but I have two batteries and I generally do not need more than 20 miles of dinghy range in less than 24 hours. I completely understand that others use their dinghy differently and so e-outboard not for them.
RegisteredUser likes this.
Telesail is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 85 Old 12-29-2019
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The Bahamas
Posts: 4,007
Thanks: 3
Thanked 149 Times in 147 Posts
Rep Power: 10
 
Re: Outboards

Elec poses increased demands on anchored boats, but not on docked boats
RegisteredUser is offline  
post #33 of 85 Old 12-29-2019
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Narragansett Bay
Posts: 20,760
Thanks: 82
Thanked 586 Times in 562 Posts
Rep Power: 11
   
Re: Outboards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Telesail View Post
.....if that is full, it seems a long way to go to Maho or Francis.
I was assuming, if one is clearing into the US, they would be coming from the East, maybe north, so Francis should be same if not sooner.

Quote:
Hope we will run into you in the Islands if you come down again since we missed you last time we crossed over - have to be there to bring Metis back to New England as she comes out of charter this May. How time flies.
Same here. We were down this past Feb/Mar. Nothing on the calendar this winter, but will be down next winter for sure.

Will you still have a hull in charter with CYOA? Where will Metis go in New England? Personal use?


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Jeanneau 54DS

In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair. Margaritas fix everything.
Minnewaska is offline  
 
post #34 of 85 Old 12-29-2019
Senior Member
 
Telesail's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wherever the boat is
Posts: 141
Thanks: 2
Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts
Rep Power: 9
 
Re: Outboards

We wonít have a hull in charter as we are now full time-ish on Pleione (and I am too attached to let anyone else sail her in my absence &#128578. Metis will probably find a new owner when we get her to New England as it seems excessive to keep two boats and she is likely worth more up there than in the USVI. But we face a choice as to where we go next with Pleione.
Minnewaska likes this.
Telesail is offline  
post #35 of 85 Old 12-30-2019
Senior Member
 
colemj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: On the boat cruising
Posts: 3,116
Thanks: 4
Thanked 125 Times in 119 Posts
Rep Power: 17
 
Re: Outboards

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Ran that gas until empty. Refilled with 1:50 but strongly suspect they had it at 1:25 or even higher. Ran lousy. Cleaned carb. Still lousy and hard to start. Took it apart and everything carbonized. Pistons and cylinders scourced. Rings shot. Pissed off that the one time I asked someone else to do the mix it ruined the engine. Pissed at myself I didnít pick up on it before damage done.
I'm not sure these are related. Even if it went the other way, and they used 1:100, it seems unlikely that type of damage occurred in such a short time. 1:25 would maybe smoke a bit, but shouldn't have done so much damage so quickly. I suspect either there was damage pre-existing that finally manifested, or the internals were not fogged and got rusty, which did some damage on initial running at speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Now have a EFI 9.9hp Suzuki. Got it for 30% less than Iíd pay in the states at Rodney Bay but new 2019. Apparently not popular in Caribbean. Heavy c/w prior tohatsu but uses no gas and runs great. While in states got every spare/filter I can think of to bring back.
It is good to have spares, but beyond filters and impeller for that engine, you probably won't be needing them.

Weight is always a contentious issue. The truth is that there is very little weight difference between 4-stroke and 2-stroke in this size range when apples are compared to apples. For example, your 9.9 is the exact same engine as the 15 and 20. Same size and weight - difference is only in the computer. The Suzuki 20 only weighs 8lb more than the ever-popular Yamaha 15. But you get another 5hp, and no carb issues for that 8lb. Same for the Tohatsu. But the reality is that any difference in weight for engines this large is practically meaningless because they aren't being man-handled around like smaller ones are. Nobody is going to be lifting by hand these engines on and off a dinghy regularly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Please share your outboard experiences. So far merc sucks, tohatsu is very sensitive to mishandling, Yamaha is fine (big theft target) but expensive as is Honda, and for present Iím a Suzuki fan. Whatís your opinion?
We had a Honda 15hp 4-stroke and it was good. Quiet and smooth. It got rode hard and put away wet, and ran for many years before it just got too tired for our use. Bought a Suzuki 20hp EFI 4-stroke. It has been a very good engine. Not quite as quiet or smooth as the Honda, but uses 25% less fuel. It uses 50-60% less fuel than all our friend's Yamaha 15 2-strokes. The difference in fuel consumption is astounding. One advantage of EFI is that the computer only provides exactly the amount of fuel needed at any given time. When running at constant throttle, it leans the fuel air mixture way back and the engine just sips fuel. We go forever on the 3 gallon tank, and 6 months using it long-distances every day sees us using a total of 12 gallons for the season.

As for what is common where, the Western Caribe has a large number of Suzukis. They seem to be as popular as the Yamahas there. Suzuki has made a big push to get them into the locals hands. I'm seeing a huge number here in the US. But I've never understood that argument anyway. There is very little about a small outboard engine that is brand-specific to the extent that you must find a person trained and experienced only on that brand. As for parts, there are few parts carried by dealers anymore. Everything is drop-shipped because inventory is expensive. One should have common maintenance stuff on board, but if you need something like a camshaft, all any dealer is going to do is order one and have it Fedex'd in - same as you would. Maintenance stuff is easy to reorder in advance, and some of it, like impellers and waterpump housings, spark plugs, and a few other items, are common across several brands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Yes the efi adds weight
What would add weight about it? The injectors and other components are light plastic parts, and the computer is small and light. Besides, you save much more weight in carrying around less gas in the dinghy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleemus View Post
EFI is not for me as I like to fix things myself. They do run great though and sip fuel.
Here is the thing about EFI - the fuel system is bullet-proof. No carburetor, and a sealed fuel system. Everything else about the engine is like every other engine. So there isn't anything that ever needs fixing on the fuel system, like those carburetors everyone is always cleaning and having trouble with and adjusting all the time, and the mechanical components are no different.

Quote:
Originally Posted by outbound View Post
Had an in line filter in my gas line when I was using 2 strokes. Now it says you canít use them with EFI engines. Why? Anything you can use?
That's news to me. We have run our Suzuki EFI with a filter between the tank and engine since new. There is nothing in the manual about not doing so. There is also a replaceable inline filter on the engine itself.

Mark

Dolphin 460 Catamaran "Reach"

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Current boat

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Previous boat
colemj is offline  
post #36 of 85 Old 12-30-2019
Senior Member
 
Bleemus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Fl
Posts: 1,380
Thanks: 30
Thanked 51 Times in 51 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Outboards

In my part-time work with the Florida Dept. Of Environmental Protection we run 2 boats. One with a Suzuki 200 Fly by Wire and one with a Yamaha 200 with standard Morse Controls. In three years the Suzuki has fried 4 circuit boards and numerous little issues. Yamaha no issues at all. Not that that is applicable to the smaller engines but it does taint my judgement on what I would personally buy.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
chef2sail likes this.

Keth

Boat Vinyl Lettering and Graphics
Bleemus is online now  
post #37 of 85 Old 12-30-2019
Senior Member
 
colemj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: On the boat cruising
Posts: 3,116
Thanks: 4
Thanked 125 Times in 119 Posts
Rep Power: 17
 
Re: Outboards

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleemus View Post
In my part-time work with the Florida Dept. Of Environmental Protection we run 2 boats. One with a Suzuki 200 Fly by Wire and one with a Yamaha 200 with standard Morse Controls. In three years the Suzuki has fried 4 circuit boards and numerous little issues. Yamaha no issues at all. Not that that is applicable to the smaller engines but it does taint my judgement on what I would personally buy.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
Really? Those engines have nothing at all to do with the smaller ones other than a brand name. They probably don't even share engineering departments. Many of the smaller models aren't even designed or manufactured by the company that brands and sells them. I understand that it is important to protect a brand's name throughout the product line, but it is useful to compartmentalize into related comparisons. For example, there are no circuit boards to blow on the small Suzuki's. After all, many of these companies also make auto, generator, and motorcycle engines, which have nothing to do with each other.

But you are Suzuki's customer to fight for, and it is up to them to prove themselves. I understand your point and am not arguing against it.

Mark

Dolphin 460 Catamaran "Reach"

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Current boat

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
- Previous boat
colemj is offline  
post #38 of 85 Old 12-30-2019
Senior Member
 
Bleemus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Fl
Posts: 1,380
Thanks: 30
Thanked 51 Times in 51 Posts
Rep Power: 5
 
Re: Outboards

As I said "Not that is applicable to the smaller engines. . .".

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk
Minnewaska likes this.

Keth

Boat Vinyl Lettering and Graphics
Bleemus is online now  
post #39 of 85 Old 12-30-2019
Freedom isn't free
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Bedford, VA
Posts: 2,895
Thanks: 11
Thanked 181 Times in 174 Posts
Rep Power: 13
 
Dock
Re: Outboards

Ok, had a Johnson 6HP Sailmaster 2 stroke. Got it gummed up, had to clean the carb. Ran flawless now matter how much I brutalized it (never did a thing to it), ran crap gas and good through it. Sold it to a guy and I kept tabs on the boat, it ran for another 5 years at least with no problems.

Bought a new (used) boat, had a nice evinrude 6hp 2 stroke... ran terrific, looked brand new (it was 20 years old). Traded it for a 2.2HP Mercury 4 stroke, was a POS, carb was always clogging, backfired and ran like garbage, caught fire nearly exploded. We rebuilt it, and it ran for another 2 years on a small fishing boat (with burned cowling). On that same sailboat I finally got a nice 3.5hp Johnson 2 stroke (90s model), ran great, no problems, sold it with the boat, was still running 3 years in (it was a 1983 model Johnson).

Bought another boat S2 7.9, 6HP Evinrude Yachtmaster 2 stroke motor (1986 vintage) gave me 3 years of great service, nothing but fuel and impeller (I think I replaced the pull cord on it. I think the new owner still uses it (was a great motor).

Wavelength 24 came with no motor (I actually forgot the motor for the boat when I bought it, it was a "Nissan 2.2hp" that was the exact same motor as the one that caught fire above - yes same as a Merc, never knew Merc and Nissan were same at a time). Anyway when I got the boat home I bought a new 2016 Mercury 3.5HP motor, 4 stroke. I brutalized that motor. It fell off the motor mount not once, but twice while running. The one time I caught it, and managed to shut it off. The second time it went underwater while running hard hydrolock stop (and I still managed to save it - safety cords are awesome). We managed to save the motor after "drying it out" over the next 30 minutes, and then running the heck out of it with 2 full tanks of fuel through it before we declared it "cured." That motor had to be the best I've owned myself. HOWEVER!!!

The best ever motor we ever owned as a family was a 1976 Chrysler 10HP (9.9 so we could meet the lake restrictions of 9.9hp), with electric start and remote controls. That motor has a legendary status with our family. Dad had it on his boat for over 10 years, it came original with the 70s model sailboat he woned. He gave the boat to my brother who used it for another 5 years. Motor's legend was "half crank to start," with the exception of first start of the season, which always required "2 tries" a full crank,, and a half crank. Never more than 2 tries ever to start it, always started via electric, none of us ever tried to start with pull start, never had to. Ran like a top. Paperwork stated 100:1 fuel ratio, ran better at 50:1, with just a tiny bit of smoke. Quiet as heck and smooth at idle. Never seen ANYTHING run like it, loved to be wide open, remote controls were ALWAYS a PITA to route through the boat, and they did allow the motor to tilt while attached.

Keep your Honda's and Yamahas, they don't seem to be any better for the money. In my opinion some motors are just junk (brand doesn't matter as much as how you care for it).

PS: a new Tohatsu, and Merc (under 15hp) are the same motor. I know redundant info. Yes I paid more for my 3.5hp Merc than a Tohatsu, but I must say it worked well as a "wash and wear."

Freedom, a 1983 C&C 32 sailing Smith Mountain Lake, VA
SHNOOL is offline  
post #40 of 85 Old 12-30-2019 Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
outbound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NE & Windwards
Posts: 6,566
Thanks: 139
Thanked 198 Times in 188 Posts
Rep Power: 8
 
Re: Outboards

C- been told by several that the components to allow the efi Suzuki to run without a battery adds weight.
The packaging on the disposal in line filters Iíve been using clearly state ďnot to be used with EFI enginesĒ. Bought a dozen from Island Water World. Have a few left. Theyíre yours if you want them.

s/v Hippocampus
Outbound 46
outbound is online now  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

By choosing to post the reply above you agree to the rules you agreed to when joining Sailnet.
Click Here to view those rules.

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the SailNet Community forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
Please note: After entering 3 characters a list of Usernames already in use will appear and the list will disappear once a valid Username is entered.


User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome