Pros and cons of steel sailboats - Page 527 - SailNet Community
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post #5261 of 5317 Old 08-30-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Why Titanium? Sounds cool as hell but there must be some specific reasons for the heavy added cost and difficulty of construction.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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post #5262 of 5317 Old 08-30-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Good question Jon but the answer is that same old answer I have to give over and over here,,,,because the client wants it! The client has a lot of experience with these big commercial cats and he has built them out of GRP and alu. They are rigorously inspected by the Coast Guard and have to be in full structural nick at all times. Due to the fact they are sailed on and off the beach the bottoms get a lot of abrasion and hard wear. The client's hope is that Titanium will solve his problem for wear and tear while avoiding the corrosive elements of alu boats.

Does it make any sense to do my rowboat in titanium? No, I don't think so. It will be heavier and because the skins will be thinner it will be harder to build fair and keep fair. But we can use it to test some welding techniques and as a test project to make sure everyone is confident of the way ahead.

We want light, fast and durable. The cat has to be light so it will be fast. Cheap is not part of the equation at this level. If all goes according to plan the "cheap" will gradually present itself during the upkeep phases.
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Last edited by bobperry; 08-30-2014 at 07:30 PM.
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post #5263 of 5317 Old 08-30-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

I have 2 houses already!
I have all the small stainless steel parts made for a Brent Swain 36. All the decks are cut out, rudder is built, more then half of the lead is collected. I have one of the two keels cut out and ready to put together.
I also have a Catalina 27 that my family and I have spent most of the summer sailing on Georgian Bay. I know what it takes to rebuild someone else's old production boat. They are cheep for a reason, because most of them are junk. The amount of time I have put into fixing up old production boats, I could have built a Brent Boat. The amount of time I put into rebuilding a 32' wooden boat I could have built 2 Brent boats!
This Catalina is the 5th boat I have owned and the building flaws are unbelievable, I hope this boat was slapped together on a Friday and finished out on a Monday, and they didn't build all their boats like this one!
I have been looking at cheep boats now with the thought to sail it for a year then strip it out and use the parts for my Brent boat. I have an offer on a 35' 1970s floating condo that has been upgraded and upgraded. It has 6 self trailing winches, over 400' of anchor chain and a beautiful mast and sails.It also has a deck and hull that is soaking wet!
Comparing this boat to one of Brent's is like comparing a 1985 dodge caravan to a Toyota land cruiser.

This was posted on the origamiboats site by tool and die maker James Pronk ( who has a room full of trophies for his metal working skills)

Dont get your boat shoping advice from anyone who would buy a Catalina ( or a Hunter) .Such choices are solid evidence of their naivety.

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post #5264 of 5317 Old 08-30-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
I have 2 houses already!
I have all the small stainless steel parts made for a Brent Swain 36. All the decks are cut out, rudder is built, more then half of the lead is collected. I have one of the two keels cut out and ready to put together.
I also have a Catalina 27 that my family and I have spent most of the summer sailing on Georgian Bay. I know what it takes to rebuild someone else's old production boat. They are cheep for a reason, because most of them are junk. The amount of time I have put into fixing up old production boats, I could have built a Brent Boat. The amount of time I put into rebuilding a 32' wooden boat I could have built 2 Brent boats!
This Catalina is the 5th boat I have owned and the building flaws are unbelievable, I hope this boat was slapped together on a Friday and finished out on a Monday, and they didn't build all their boats like this one!
I have been looking at cheep boats now with the thought to sail it for a year then strip it out and use the parts for my Brent boat. I have an offer on a 35' 1970s floating condo that has been upgraded and upgraded. It has 6 self trailing winches, over 400' of anchor chain and a beautiful mast and sails.It also has a deck and hull that is soaking wet!
Comparing this boat to one of Brent's is like comparing a 1985 dodge caravan to a Toyota land cruiser.

This was posted on the origamiboats site by tool and die maker James Pronk ( who has a room full of trophies for his metal working skills)

Dont get your boat shoping advice from anyone who would buy a Catalina ( or a Hunter) .Such choices are solid evidence of their naivety.
Heh-heh. I thought you were ignoring me Brentmeister!

Thanks for posting that. It proves the fact that I'm honest and you're not.

As I (and he) said, Pronkster has BS parts lying all over his homestead, yet has been through 5 other production boats (including a C27) in the mean time - JUST so his family can actually get out and sail a bit while his BS parts continue to rust. And this is a dude with trophies for his metal working skills - and he STILL can't finish one of BS' boats!?!?!?? So you think you can Good Cruiser Wannabe?

In any case, who on earth would really want to "re-build" a C27. They are freakin' weekenders!!...that you can buy for $2K!!...a FRACTION of what you'll pay for JUST THE STEEL for a BS yacht!!

So as always it depends on what you're shopping for. If you want to be stuck on land for years and years like Pronkster, build a BS yacht....then spend even more money on production boats to sail a little in the mean time because your BS yacht is just too much of a pain in the ass to actually ever finish (as we've seen over and over in this thread with actual examples of rusting hulks for sale).

Otherwise, buy a very affordable production boat and go sailing...like Pronkster.

Next.
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Last edited by smackdaddy; 08-30-2014 at 09:29 PM.
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post #5265 of 5317 Old 08-30-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Smackers:
I think the "ignore" function on the BS computer is on the fritz.
More BS from BS. It never ends.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Brent going after smack by name calling is just low. Please go after me and my boat. Or Hannah2 or Kim. I'm sure they like me would feel it would elevate their standing. If you recall the original question was the pro/con of steel boats. I explained to you that after looking at Fe, Al, composite wood, solid and cored glass or other fiber why I made my choice. Hannah2 choose Al. I think Kim choose cored glass I think. I know their boats ( like mine) are beautiful, fast and strong. What you did is like calling a baby ugly. I try to be a gentleman so won't tell you looking at the lines of your boats I would expect them to be slow and the pictures suggest they are ugly.
By the way I've been on hunters designed by cheribini, cheribinis, swans, hinckleys and other glass boats older than than the first Brent boat you ever built. No rust, no thinned plate and they are still crossing oceans.. Don't you realize the useful service life of a glass boat with decent maintenance seems infinite. This is one of the failings of steel. Hence the rapid depreciation. Sure with glass boats the METAL bits fail and need replacement but the hull remains sound. If there was no metal there would be no need for zincs.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Fanaticism is a strange, depressing mindset, no matter the subject of said fanaticism.
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post #5268 of 5317 Old 08-30-2014
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

How right you are Jon.

Tomorrow Olaf Hart will be here. He;'s a fellow I met on SAILING ANARCHY. He's a doctor from Tasmania. He's coming by with his wife for the evening and I'll do my very best with some beef short ribs in a wine sauce. For the past two nights I have had Rasputin aka Jody here. Jody is from Alabama and I met him also on SAILING ANARCHY. Jody is responsible for all that amazing 3D modelling work I use in my design projects. I've been to N. Carolina and met Jody before but this time he came to the shack. My poor wife is used to it now. She married an Australian and we always welcome strangers at the door. I am very lucky to have such a wide range of good friends who appreciate my work. I like the way Jody out it when he said, "I have finally made the trip to Mecca." I made him salmon, pasta and asparagus on Thursday night and Swiss steak with smashed spuds, and cauliflower last night. We eat very well here in Mecca. Tomorrow night I'll do the beef short ribs in a wine sauce, corn, smashed spuds and brocolli. I suppose I could be angry, jealous and bitter like BS but I don't have that kind of vitriol or energy, not to mention the motivation. I'll save my energy for my cooking. Life is best enjoyed.
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Bob's cooking is worth the trip to mecca, and even better Bob's shack is not in mecca, instead it is in a beautiful and safe place. Conveniently located on the ocean, with great views, and Bob's gracious wife.

Brent never seems to have anyone post anything positive about having met him, I am kind of wondering if Brent really exists, or perhaps he is just the product of an evil AI that plagues sailnet and other places with rude comments and photos of unfinished ugly boats...

I am not a happy camper today, my co-driver and I are stuck taking some time off in Arkansas, since we are on the way to Pryor, OK in the middle of "not near the ocean land". It would have been much better to have had the weekend off near the ocean, gotten in some fishing and maybe a boat ride.

Bob, how is the fishing lately?

It is good to learn from your mistakes, but much better to learn from the mistakes of others...
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Re: Pros and cons of steel sailboats

Winston Churchill, "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject".

Few people have ever had better command of the English language.

I, myself, personally intend to continue being outspoken and opinionated, intolerant of all fanatics, fools and ignoramuses, deeply suspicious of all those who have "found the answer" and on my bad days, downright rude.
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