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post #21 of 47 Old 06-26-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 39i

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Thatís a fantastic idea now I know what to do with that eight person life raft I have an on my 44i...I think I could fit two of them in there. Haha


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Yeah we have no need for a life raft for the coastal cruising we do, so that locker is really handy for other things. Extra jugs of fuel, fenders, snorkeling gear, and BEER!

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post #22 of 47 Old 06-26-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 39i

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Thanks for this writeup- We have a lot in common about what we prefer in sailboats and I have looked at this boat (there is one for sale here in MDR). My wife REALLY loved the interior, which is the biggest selling point. My question always is, "can I compete in the local Cruiser Class races?" and your info is very enlightening. Must....Have....feathering/folding....prop....
Yeah we love the interior too! I have no doubt there is more performance to be gained. The boat competes well against other cruising boats. I don't think your typical Hunter or Catalina would touch her. There was a Beneteau 373 out that was WAY behind us...and we though WE were slow!

If you want to do any club racing the Performance version would be better, with a deeper keel and taller mast. Unfortunately there were very few brought into our area.

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post #23 of 47 Old 06-26-2019
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Re: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 39i

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Yes certainly symetrics are much better at running, but as you know, flying a symetric is a lot more work, and much more intimidating for short handed cruisers.
I see comments like this a lot, but having sailed both symmetric and asymmetrical chutes a whole lot, short-handed a symmetrical chute is much easier to hoist and douse than an asym, and also easier and more reliable to jibe without getting a wrap.

Jeff


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post #24 of 47 Old 06-26-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 39i

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I see comments like this a lot, but having sailed both symmetric and asymmetrical chutes a whole lot, short-handed a symmetrical chute is much easier to hoist and douse than an asym, and also easier and more reliable to jibe without getting a wrap.



Jeff
Throughout my racing career my primary role has been foredeck, so I have got plenty of experience with both types of spinnakers. Personally I find symetrics more fun for racing because there is so much more to do, therefore the role of foredeck crew is that much more important. I also know how badly things can go wrong with symetric spinnakers.

Certainly on small boats where you can run a simple set of sheets, and the loads aren't too high a symetric is still very manageable, but you still have the added complexity of the spinnaker pole, downhaul, uphaul etc. Someone still has to go up to the foredeck to gybe the pole. Again, fairly straight forward for an experienced racer as long as the wind and sea conditions are reasonably tame.

Now if you move up to a 40ft or bigger boat, the loads are higher, the pole is bigger, and you likely need to run sheets and guys. So now the person at the back of the boat has to manage sheets, guys, downhaul and uphaul and helm while their partner goes forward to gybe the pole. If you have ever done foredeck you will know how vulnerable you are to losing control during those moments when both corners of the chute are loose. If a mistake is made on the helm it is very easy to broach even in moderate breezes. There is far more potential for things to go wrong gybing a symetric.

Contrast that to an asymetric...you have sheets, and maybe a tack line. Gybes can be done by one person from the cockpit. It really isnt that hard to gybe without wrapping around the forestay! If the wind gets too strong you can just blow the tack, the sail flies like a flag until you gather it up, and off you go. No pole to stow before you can gybe or tack, much less spaghetti in the cockpit, and generally much less stress on the wife!

Sure lots of people prefer symetrics for a variety of reasons, but there is NO WAY it is simpler or easier than an asymetric in any way!

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post #25 of 47 Old 06-26-2019
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Re: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 39i

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Originally Posted by SchockT View Post
Throughout my racing career my primary role has been foredeck, so I have got plenty of experience with both types of spinnakers. Personally I find symetrics more fun for racing because there is so much more to do, therefore the role of foredeck crew is that much more important. I also know how badly things can go wrong with symetric spinnakers.

Certainly on small boats where you can run a simple set of sheets, and the loads aren't too high a symetric is still very manageable, but you still have the added complexity of the spinnaker pole, downhaul, uphaul etc. Someone still has to go up to the foredeck to gybe the pole. Again, fairly straight forward for an experienced racer as long as the wind and sea conditions are reasonably tame.

Now if you move up to a 40ft or bigger boat, the loads are higher, the pole is bigger, and you likely need to run sheets and guys. So now the person at the back of the boat has to manage sheets, guys, downhaul and uphaul and helm while their partner goes forward to gybe the pole. If you have ever done foredeck you will know how vulnerable you are to losing control during those moments when both corners of the chute are loose. If a mistake is made on the helm it is very easy to broach even in moderate breezes. There is far more potential for things to go wrong gybing a symetric.

Contrast that to an asymetric...you have sheets, and maybe a tack line. Gybes can be done by one person from the cockpit. It really isnt that hard to gybe without wrapping around the forestay! If the wind gets too strong you can just blow the tack, the sail flies like a flag until you gather it up, and off you go. No pole to stow before you can gybe or tack, much less spaghetti in the cockpit, and generally much less stress on the wife!

Sure lots of people prefer symetrics for a variety of reasons, but there is NO WAY it is simpler or easier than an asymetric in any way!

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We obviously see this a little differently. This is me single-handing under spinnaker in close to 20 knots of wind.
https://flic.kr/p/WvfEzT][/url]Synergy under Spinnaker Approaching Bridge 2 by jeff_halp, on Flickr

Granted my boat is a foot shorter and a little lighter than yours, so my chute is smaller, but I have done this on somewhat larger boats as well. There is a limit to the size of a boat that can be easily short-handed under a symmetrical chute since the key is having a boat that is small enough that it is still possible to do an end for end jibe. On a boat the size of our boats, the pole is still small enough to be pretty managable end for ending. But given a boat that can be end for end jibed, then using twings led to the cockpit and marking the sheets for the jibe, it is easy to do a single handed jibe with a symmetric chute by setting the autopilot to just above dead downwind, twinging down both sheets, and then throwing the pole. Once the pole is across, its pretty simple to go back to the cockpit, throw the boom and work your way up to your new course.

To me assyms are dangerous short-handed. I have been on well sailed fully crewed boats that have gotten wraps in their assyms that have taken two-three crew to clear and someone else to steer. Wraps can be avoided by having the jib partially set so it acts as a spinnaker net, but while safer, its not easier.

Jeff


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post #26 of 47 Old 06-26-2019
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Re: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 39i

I am getting to old for all that pole stuff single handed. I use a top down, put it up on the sprit before I leave the dock. to jibe I furl the assym, jibe the main and unfurl. if it all goes bad with the unfurl I blow the tack line, the sail is behind the main and pull it down into the cockpit. much safer then my days with a pole
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post #27 of 47 Old 06-27-2019
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Re: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 39i

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Yeah we have no need for a life raft for the coastal cruising we do, .....
What are the water temps there? Itís mid-season here and they are barely in the low 60s.

Just a couple of days ago, I heard a Pan-Pan for a MOB who was reportedly wearing a life jacket. They hadnít found him just a mile off the beach and ultimately called it off. No way he was still alive in those water temps.

https://www.ack.net/news/20190625/co...issing-kayaker

This guy fell out of a kayak, but the point remains. Even coastal, you need to stay alive for quite a while, waiting for rescue. In the 50 degree water temps that start our season, youíll be paralyzed in well under an hour and dead within 2 hrs.

Iím a life raft fan. A buddy, without the room for one, bought Gumby suits.


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post #28 of 47 Old 06-27-2019 Thread Starter
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Re: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 39i

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Originally Posted by Jeff_H View Post
We obviously see this a little differently. This is me single-handing under spinnaker in close to 20 knots of wind.
https://flic.kr/p/WvfEzT][/url]Synergy under Spinnaker Approaching Bridge 2 by jeff_halp, on Flickr

Granted my boat is a foot shorter and a little lighter than yours, so my chute is smaller, but I have done this on somewhat larger boats as well. There is a limit to the size of a boat that can be easily short-handed under a symmetrical chute since the key is having a boat that is small enough that it is still possible to do an end for end jibe. On a boat the size of our boats, the pole is still small enough to be pretty managable end for ending. But given a boat that can be end for end jibed, then using twings led to the cockpit and marking the sheets for the jibe, it is easy to do a single handed jibe with a symmetric chute by setting the autopilot to just above dead downwind, twinging down both sheets, and then throwing the pole. Once the pole is across, its pretty simple to go back to the cockpit, throw the boom and work your way up to your new course.

To me assyms are dangerous short-handed. I have been on well sailed fully crewed boats that have gotten wraps in their assyms that have taken two-three crew to clear and someone else to steer. Wraps can be avoided by having the jib partially set so it acts as a spinnaker net, but while safer, its not easier.

Jeff
Nice boat!

I'm not saying it can't be done, lots of people fly syms single handed. Yours is probably a lot easier than my old Santana with tiller steering and no autohelm...

My point is that for the average cruiser an asym is much easier than a symetric. I have experienced far more disastrous gybes with symetrics than with asyms. I have never had a severe wrap with an A-kite, whether on a crewed race boat or with my wife and I. I can think of plenty of bad gybes with symetrics, including broken spin poles, and nearly going overboard in SF Bay.

If you dont already have symetric gear and spinnaker, asym is a no brainer for cruising boats such as mine.

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Re: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 39i

Minnie,

Salish sea in southern part where I am is typically 42-45F year around! We have a bit less time than you do. I have seen some of the shallower bays with a big creek or equal freeze in winter time, when it is cold ie below freezing for a week or two. That is fresh water freezing that sits on top of the salt water.

As far as racing the newer Jeanneau's, The i series, and the previous SO/SF series boats are probably the best overall sailing boats. The 39iP is the best powered up version, but very few P versions. The SF35 is the best of the previous model. I have seen quite a few 42iP and lots of 36iP's around in the i series. The SF37 is probably the most available version in NA of older ones.
The newer 9 series versions, are a bit slower overall. Do have for the length, the most WL, so should be fastest, but the sail area disp amounts are on lower end of things, so performance is not as good.

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Re: Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 39i

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Minnie,

Salish sea in southern part where I am is typically 42-45F year around! We have a bit less time than you do.....
Wow. Thatís unconscious in < 30 mins and dead in <1 hr. One probably wouldnít be able to aid in their own recovery, if the boat they fell off came right back to get them.

You folks sail in life raft or dry suit mandatory waters, IMO.


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