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post #1 of 44 Old 01-04-2020 Thread Starter
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Review Your Own Boat

Contest 36s

What I am not crazy about in this design.... not in order of importance.

1. While I like the aft cabin with its huge berth which can be slept on fore and aft or athwartship... I would really prefer a walk around stand up cabin for making the bed etc. As I only sleep there once asleep standing up is not an issue. But one person needs to get past another if two are sleeping in the aft cabin.

2. V berth is a bit high and done so to create stowage bins below and make it wider as lowering it would make the mattress smaller.

3. The mfg used a beige carpet applied to the hull in a few locations... the V berth, in the Salon above the lockers at the level of the ports, same in the Galley. And again in the aft cabin. I haven't replaced it because I can't decide on what the material should be.

4. Boat came with a sink or maybe even a head at the entrance to / inside the aft cabin. Totally stupid idea... the galley sink is 4 feet away!. I removed the sink, made a hinged lid, left the top, attached a large box and keep misc hardware in plastic boxes there. It very handy. I turned the plumbing into a deck wash.. and used it for a water maker when I had one. Below the top is a cabinet for more tools and so forth.

5. Companionway key lock has been a PITA and so I simply don't use it except when I leave the boat for long periods. I need to replace or fix. low priority.

6. Only a single drawer in the whole boat in the galley. However there are tons of lockers which means things are in bins inside the lockers.

7. Deck has a diamond pattern texture for non skid. I don't think it's terribly good.

8. Mfq supplied the boat with teak slats for the benches and the cockpit and shower sole. They were kinda thin and so I replaced them with grates or heavier slats.

9, Alum stanchion bases. They were changed to stainless steel

10. Fore deck is not large enough for a 10' RIB and do anything up there.

11. Because of high free board, fractional rig with mast forward and fin keel... boat yaws at anchor and on a mooring when the wind picks up above 10-12 knots. Above 18 knots I rig a riding sail to stop the yawing. PITA, but does the job.

12. Large main which now requires I use drill motor on winch for power assist to raise. Would benefit from a less frictiony track.


What I like or learned to like not in order of importance:

1. Raised flush deck... easy to move and work on

2. Quality fittings, hardware ports and hatches, line organizers, rope clutches etc.

3. Fractional rig w/ swept back spreaders. Tapered mast is deck stepped so there is no water coming into the boat via the mast. Large compression post integral with teak bulkhead. Very heavy rigging wire 10mm. All bulkheads are neatly tabbed to the hull.

4. functional stern boarding converts to swim ladder.

5. large 2 level anchor locker... chain drops forward and has a weep. Space on foredeck for windlass

6. slotted tow rail

7. Huge comfy dry cockpit. Coamings I can sit on. Wide benches several people can sleep on with backs high enough for support. Companionway dash for instruments. Engine panel forward in recessed GRP box. Added the same recessed box to port side for AP control, windlass switches and compass repeater switches. Folding teak table. Weems&Plath compass and Whitlock pedestal. Large lazarettes, a huge rope locker and propane locker where I store spare gas for the OB at back of cockpit. Large teak trimmed cubbies in the coaming for winch handles, hand shower, misc stuff. Wouldn't change a thing about this cockpit. It's where we are most of the time and it's very comfortable.

8. Headroom. Because of the raised deck mold the headroom is incredible. Volume below is huge in main cabin.

9. gelcoated GRP head liners. Salon headliner includes conduits for running wires from the nav desk area to the mast. Easy to clean surface. Strong teak hand holds above the settees.

10. Dining table which can be expanded or lowered so that a double berth can be made on stbd.

11. lots of lockers... lots. all teak with splatter painted interiors.

12. Beautiful varnished teak joinery. Looks like new 35 years on.

13. Settees which are comfy and useful for sea berths and include lee boards (all berths have lee boards)

14. Small ledge w/ fiddle behind the settee backs which are great places to keep small things handy.

15. Large U shaped galley w/ CL sink at the companionway. Galley includes a athwartship shelf aft and above sink next to companionway. This is so incredibly useful and handy. It holds a 2 gallon potable water dispenser and all manner of small things needed above and below... locks, tools, lotions, sun glasses etc. I modified the galley to include bins for glassware, spices, mugs... etc. and cut a lid door into the corner of the counter and installed a dish holder below. Galley is great for cooking underway and for passing food up to cockpit.

16. Wide strong companionway steps with hand hold. I added storage bins behind the steps to hold, horn, dog stuff, shackles, snatch blocks, flash light, flares, fire extinguisher and shoes live on top of the engine cover which forms the first 2 steps.

17. Nav desk with a large top (full chart) which opens for storage... tons of little things, tools, tape, heat shrink, rigging stuff, glue, ship's docs, eye glasses, drill bits. Too much stuff in there. Large locker below where all manner of bottled stuff lives, motor oil, anti freeze, cleaners.. lots of them, rags... spray bottles.

18. Book shelf with a portlight at the nav desk. Can see out to port and store lots of things in that shelf (with fiddle) - portable plotter, binocs, 18v batts, phone charging cables misc elec connectors. Love this shelf!

19. Forward walk thru head. Large great ventilation, lockers for hanging and one with shelves to port for towels and bed clothes +... small "medicine" cabs (2) to stbd with all sorts of bathroom stuff inside. Shelf above with a batten at the hull behind which more bottles live. Sink counter is high. No smells in this head ever. Changed the OEM head to a Groco Model K. Head is in the right place for me as I sleep aft and use the V for a walk in catch all closet for bags and so on.

20. Lots of lockers all over the place. Good except I end up hauling around too much stuff!

21. Engine Access. Great access to the front and top and rear... so so for the sides.

22. Bilge is dry except for a plumbing leak or when a transducer is pulled. Hull is round and bulge is shallow. Pumps are in the bilge in the salon.

23. AGM Batteries are located aft of engine under the aft cabin berth. Did a major upgrade to electric... batts, wiring, fuses, busses, inverter, shunt... Convenient to work on.

24. Hot water heater under aft cabin berth

25. Fully skegged rudder and enclosed prop shaft which I feel are stronger and protected.

26. Easy to sail and balanced helm. Will sail close reach on her own.

Here's a link to the architect Dick Zaal's page for the 36s... Dick Zaal used some images of Shiva I sent to him. I did visit him and the factory in 1987 after I bought the boat. How cool is that!

http://www.dickzaalyachtdesign.nl/ya...ntest_36s.html
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Last edited by SanderO; 01-04-2020 at 12:20 PM.
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post #2 of 44 Old 01-04-2020
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Re: Review Your Own Boat

This is one of the best ideas for a thread in a long time. My concern is that it will be so full of good information that it will be difficult to search or wade through.

Maybe as it progresses, reviews of individual boats could be duplicated in a new forum titled "owner reviews" or similar, with boats listed by model or manufacturer? I know there is a manufacturer forum, but it would be useful to have reviews in one place instead of searching through manufacturers looking for a review.

This thread is also useful as a continuing one, with normal discussion, tangents, etc - so stopping it and moving it to another forum to prevent duplication isn't a good idea.

The unfortunate part of this thread is that contributing to it takes a good bit of thought, organization, and time. Hopefully, I will find some of that in the future and review our past two boats.

Mark

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post #3 of 44 Old 01-04-2020
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Re: Review Your Own Boat

2001 Hunter 410, owner deep draft, slab reef version.

Ive have this boat 9 years and full time lived/cruised it the last 40 months and really like the boat. Its pretty fast, comfortable, easy to balance and handle. The main things beyond little silly I wish ..... are:

- the aft bulkhead wall screws like to loosen and the overhead liber likes to flex in big following seas and those tome when the surge is pounding on the beam at anchor
- been trying for 9 years to get the freeze/frig seal to seal better so don't have to defrost the freezer so much

Sorry, but thats really all i have to complain about the boat.
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post #4 of 44 Old 01-04-2020 Thread Starter
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Re: Review Your Own Boat

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
This is one of the best ideas for a thread in a long time. My concern is that it will be so full of good information that it will be difficult to search or wade through.

Maybe as it progresses, reviews of individual boats could be duplicated in a new forum titled "owner reviews" or similar, with boats listed by model or manufacturer? I know there is a manufacturer forum, but it would be useful to have reviews in one place instead of searching through manufacturers looking for a review.

This thread is also useful as a continuing one, with normal discussion, tangents, etc - so stopping it and moving it to another forum to prevent duplication isn't a good idea.

The unfortunate part of this thread is that contributing to it takes a good bit of thought, organization, and time. Hopefully, I will find some of that in the future and review our past two boats.

Mark
Thanks Mark... I struggled to think of a format and decided to simply list the designs features... things I like and those I don't. I don't have much to compare to unfortunately. But I do know this design very well.

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post #5 of 44 Old 01-04-2020
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Re: Review Your Own Boat

I don't think there should be a fixed format. Owners should just review as they like in whatever way they like.

Mark

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post #6 of 44 Old 01-04-2020
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Re: Review Your Own Boat

Sabre 34 - I would have preferred a design with a booth type seating arrangement like I had on my old Bristol. Where the table drops down to create a berth.

I have two settees, one a single, and one which pulls out to form a double berth. The salon table folds down from the bulkhead. When it's fully opened it blocks access to the head, which is forward. I believe Sabre did this to be able to fit a 2nd larger water tank under the settee. ( more water is probably more useful overall on a trip ) It's just a personal preference and not a deal breaker.

I'd also prefer an aft head rather than a forward one, so you didn't have to go forward through the salon to shed wet gear or disturb sleeping crew. I've long ago accepted the design I have.

There are some construction critiques that I have but I won't list them all. I wish they had bolted the cabin-top handrails through rather than screw them into the core.
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post #7 of 44 Old 01-04-2020
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Re: Review Your Own Boat

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Originally Posted by Don L View Post
owner deep draft, slab reef version.
You're being too hard on yourself, Don...

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Last edited by colemj; 01-04-2020 at 11:12 AM.
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post #8 of 44 Old 01-04-2020 Thread Starter
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Re: Review Your Own Boat

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Sabre 34 - ...

I'd also prefer an aft head rather than a forward one, so you didn't have to go forward through the salon to shed wet gear or disturb sleeping crew. ....
Interesting comment. I hardly use foulies anymore. But when I did walking through the salon to the head to hang then there to drip was no problem at all. Even in ocean passages when I did have crew... off watch was pretty much totally out and took a lot to disturb them ;-). When I sail with wifey or one mate... there's no one to disturb. On the other hand since we sleep aft I prefer the head far from the berth.

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post #9 of 44 Old 01-04-2020
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Re: Review Your Own Boat

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Interesting comment. I hardly use foulies anymore. But when I did walking through the salon to the head to hang then there to drip was no problem at all. Even in ocean passages when I did have crew... off watch was pretty much totally out and took a lot to disturb them ;-). When I sail with wifey or one mate... there's no one to disturb. On the other hand since we sleep aft I prefer the head far from the berth.
Like I said it's not a deal breaker. Just a personal preference. I've actually just slept in the cockpit in foul weather gear, because it simply took too much effort to take it all off on put them back on between short shifts and when every thing gets closed up tight it got a little stuffy below.

Below is a link to the Sabre 362 layout, one of the models, I'd consider if I was in the market again.



https://www.sailnet.com/forums/attac...125884&thumb=1
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post #10 of 44 Old 01-04-2020
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Re: Review Your Own Boat

Jeanneau 54DS (older version with real teak and laminate, not the modern production teak)

We love everything about the boat's layout. Plenty of space for us and guests. Aft master suite, with dedicated head and dedicated shower, which are on opposite sides of the cabin, not segmented within the head. This has effectively made it his/hers sinks and mirrors.

The forward cabins have removable walls, so can go from three rooms that sleep 6 to one huge room that sleeps two, with a fully size couch (folded down uppper bunk) and the biggest closet imaginable (the v-berth). All contained with an ensuite head. It becomes bigger than the master, but the bunk is smaller.

There is another day head off the salon. Tons of storage, although, much of it is not super accessible, as it's under seat cushions. The aft lazerettes I can climb into and full stand up. Amazing room.

Tons of space for entertaining in the salon and cockpit "deck salon". With our enclosure, the cockpit really becomes a comfortable outdoor deck, even in cold or rainy weather.

The boat is certainly capable of ocean passages, but not built as sturdy as some other more well know "go-anywhere" brands. Subjectively, I think she might need more repair, after taking a long passage, but I'm not sure that's really true. I've never heard of a repairless passage on anything. We have beefed up the thru-hulls, so some of it can be accommodated. You can't get away from a spade rudder, which is not as protected as a skeg, but spades cross oceans all the time. Our rig is strong, the winches are beefy and our ground tackle is ample (300ft of 1/2" chain on a 75lb anchor).

She is comfortable in all respects. Creature comforts, plenty of room, huge centerline king sided bed, sails comfortably. We can make all the power we need, but diesel tankage is low at only 100 gallons. At 2g per hour in cruise, that's only 50 hours, but can be extended substantially at slower speeds/RPMs. Way more than sufficient for coastal, not enough to bail out a Bermuda crossing, let alone to the Caribbean. Water tankage is high at 220 gallons. I'd almost rather it be the other way around. You can make water, you can't make diesel. What I want is both.

The galley is excellent, with two fridges. Double sink, washer/drier, microwave, four burner stove and oven. Great spot to cook. She has a dishwasher, which is entirely stupid. We've never used it, I don't even flush out the antifreeze anymore. The space needs to be repurposed to galley storage.

Most of all, she's fast and sails very easily. She can fairly easily be single handed, when nothing is going wrong, of course. For practical purposes, with one of us below or napping, that's how we technically sail anyway. One never needs to leave the cockpit for any normal sailing event: raise, furl, trim, tack, reef, etc. It took some getting used to 10 years ago, but I've grown to love the 150 mast head genoa, which dwarfs the main. The main is virtually a balancing sail, but not quite. No main at all and I can run the genoa virtually to DDW.

That's my random stream of consciousness. I'd answer any questions anyone has, if any.


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