Looking for handling info on '67 cal 30 - SailNet Community
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post #1 of 9 Old 09-21-2018 Thread Starter
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Hello all! I acquired a '67 cal 30 a couple years back and am now doing the refit and deck repairs.

I have the opportunity to alter the rig layout and am curious on how this vessel handles. Ice helm? Weather helm? Not a lot of info on CE & CLR relationship.

Anyone who's sailed one of these would have a plethora of info more than what I have, any advice is welcome! Thanks and hold fast!
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post #2 of 9 Old 09-22-2018
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Re: Looking for handling info on '67 cal 30

Just out of curiosity, what sort of rig modifications would you make? Would you be looking just at better helm balance, a more or less powerful rig, a split rig?

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post #3 of 9 Old 09-22-2018
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Re: Looking for handling info on '67 cal 30

William "Bill" Lapworth, the Cal 30's designer, was perhaps the foremost West Coast Naval Architect in the post World War II period. I have sailed his Cal 25s and a Cal 29, and their rigs can be adjusted to have as much or as little weather helm as one might wish. I just did a search for any online discussions about Cal 30 weather helm, and found nothing. That suggests that nobody has had a problem with it that couldn't be remedied by tuning. My advice is don't tinker with it.
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post #4 of 9 Old 09-22-2018
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Re: Looking for handling info on '67 cal 30

Without knowing the proposed changes to the rig that you are contemplating, it's hard to give you very much advice. My recollection of sailing Lapworth designs of the era was that the fin keel spade rudder designs had pretty neutral helms and that the foils were large enough that the boats tollerated a lot of rudder angle without stalling the rudder.

1967 was around the time that the original Cal 30 was replaced by the later Cal 30-2. These are very different designs. The original Cal 30 was one of Lapworth's earliest designs for fiberglass, and was a pretty crummy boat all around. These had a short keel(fin keel) with an attached rudder. They tended to have a lot more weather helm and handle poorly in a stiffer breeze.

Like most designers of the pre-computer age, Lapworth was an intuitive designer, whose designs were evolutionary rather than fresh designs. The poor handling of the Cal 30 led to Lapworth's shift to fin keel with a spade rudder. Similarly, his first fin keel spade rudder designs tended to be more tender like the Cal 30, but as he saw the power of fin keel spade rudder designs, the hull forms evolved to have greater form stability.

Like most boats of that era the Cal's were comparatively tender. And while the Cal's were stiffer than many CCA designs of that era, they still tended to be sailed with more heel angle than more modern designs. But, like most boats, with larger heel angles they tended to develop more weather helm and so needed a steeper helm angle to maintain course. That was no big deal on the fin keel spade rudder designs, since they rudder was a 'counterbalanced' geometry, but was much harder to deal with on the original Cal 30. As a result with either design, it was faster and easier on the crew to reduce heel by blading the mainsail, or even flagging the mainsail in a building breeze.

The lack of initial stability makes them a poor candidate for a taller or larger rig. The sailing and drag characteristics, and rig proportions make them a poor choice for a cutter rig or adding a bowsprit, and flying an asymmetrical Spinnaker.

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Last edited by Jeff_H; 09-22-2018 at 11:21 AM.
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post #5 of 9 Old 09-22-2018
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Re: Looking for handling info on '67 cal 30

What does 'blading' the mainsail mean? I haven't heard that term.
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post #6 of 9 Old 09-22-2018
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Re: Looking for handling info on '67 cal 30

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Originally Posted by paulinnanaimo View Post
What does 'blading' the mainsail mean? I haven't heard that term.
Blading the mainsail would be a mix of tightening the halyard, outhaul, mainsheet, and vang, so that the sail is very flat, and then dropping the traveler, if there is one, to reduce the angle of attack of the sail.

On a fractional rig, this also includes adding a bunch of backstay tension.on a bendable masthead rig it includes adding baby stay tension.

In combination, this minimizes side forces while maintaining drive. The reduction in side forces results in less heel, weather helm, and leeway.

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Re: Looking for handling info on '67 cal 30

That sounds like a reasonable strategy Jeff but is it more effective than simply putting a reef in...which is usually our first response.
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Re: Looking for handling info on '67 cal 30

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Originally Posted by paulinnanaimo View Post
That sounds like a reasonable strategy Jeff but is it more effective than simply putting a reef in...which is usually our first response.
If you are sailing a long leg in reasonably steady breezes then the strategy would normally be to blade the sails first, then add twist to the jib, and then if the boat is still overloaded then reef. A lot of older boats are harder to blade out, so the only tactic is to reef.

In gusty conditions, blading the mainsail is a better stategy in terms of performance and comfort but it takes a bit more trimming as the traveler is playing in the gusts. I think that is why cruisers tend to reef in gusty conditions and more performance oriented sailors tend to blade the sails in gusty conditions.

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Re: Looking for handling info on '67 cal 30

Explained well, thankyou.
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post #10 of 9 Old 09-27-2018 Thread Starter
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Thanks for all the info! I hadn't gotten the opportunity to sail her before deciding to move forward with the refit just observing while walking around, how the weight shifts, studying the below water lines, the Keel design, it all just inherently seemed... bobbley?

Imagine you're a fiberglass savant that works at a boat repair shop and your building a new boat, except your restrained to using the cal 30 hull. There I am.

To me it appeared she would leehelm, hard.
I guess I hadn't really made a plan per se. I know she's a high aspect rig meaning much larger Mainsail to headsail ratio. And judging from the simple design drawings on sailboatdata it appears the CE is waaaay out infront of the CLR which would indicate leehelm, add a bowsprit and you've made it worse. I have a used mast that measures in at 40.5 FT. my thought was to keel step the mast about 20" aft and still have a 32ish foot luff available over the pilot house. Then, reduce the boom length some amount I'll save the math for later. In conclusion, smaller main sail farther back, she's going to be gaining some weight, of course as low as possible. And was considering a shoe on the keel to bring up initial stability. Baby need new kicks.
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