Missing sailor on the Chester River - Page 3 - SailNet Community
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post #21 of 38 Old 07-18-2018
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Re: Missing sailor on the Chester River

This thread makes my head hurt. I'm glad that no one in this thread has any decision making authority with regards to the incident or any possible future safety requirements.

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post #22 of 38 Old 07-18-2018
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Re: Missing sailor on the Chester River

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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
I have several problems with your statement, especially with your demeaning of appropriate caution by characterizing it as "fear."
Sorry, not trying to be demeaning, but your prior comment sure did sound like you have a fear of water, if you are having a negative physical reaction to an image of people on a boat not wearing PFDs. ("Seeing all those people sitting on those spars without PFDs just turned my stomach.")

When I look at that image, I see a bunch of people having fun (albeit in ridiculous matching polos). The lack of PFDs wouldn't cross my mind unless brought up in a discussion like this.
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post #23 of 38 Old 07-18-2018
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Re: Missing sailor on the Chester River

If I were on the log canoe, I would be more concerned about the embarrassment of falling off than drowning. It looks like great fun. But I understand that is not for everyone and I would keep young children away.

How many people on this thread lead ice climbs? How many believe that should be banned, because there is no way of preventing a dangerous or even fatal fall? In fact, there are no safety regulations on climbing per se, only equipment standards and standards for guiding climbers (which I have done).

Just curious.

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post #24 of 38 Old 07-18-2018
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Re: Missing sailor on the Chester River

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If I were on the log canoe, I would be more concerned about the embarrassment of falling off than drowning. It looks like great fun. But I understand that is not for everyone and I would keep young children away.

How many people on this thread lead ice climbs? How many believe that should be banned, because there is no way of preventing a dangerous or even fatal fall? In fact, there are no safety regulations on climbing per se, only equipment standards and standards for guiding climbers (which I have done).

Just curious.
I think death is worse than embarrassment, and thus worthy of greater concern.

I'm not suggesting banning anything. It's ultimately one's own choice whether to pursue activities for which there is no safety gear to prevent a fatality. But when such gear is available, affordable, and comfortable, why not use it?

One reason the picture turned my stomach is because I realize that one of the young women shown didn't make it home safely. But the other reason is the clear hazard that was ignored, apparently for the sake of vanity.

I see plenty of boaters without PFDs and don't give it much thought because the conditions (weather, sea state, boat size/stability) are benign. That doesn't turn my stomach. But when I see a 3 year old on the docks without PFD, or a guy on the foredeck in a sudden blow struggling to get his spinnaker down without a PFD, or 15 people poled out on one side of a log canoe without PFDs, I see accidents waiting to happen.

FYI, my 3-year-old son fell off the dock at Lake Wallenpaupack less than 15 minutes after we arrived for vacation. (We were still checking in at the front desk.) Thank God we strapped a PFD on him before he even got out of the car.
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Last edited by TakeFive; 07-18-2018 at 04:29 PM.
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post #25 of 38 Old 07-18-2018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdqaltair View Post
If I were on the log canoe, I would be more concerned about the embarrassment of falling off than drowning. It looks like great fun. But I understand that is not for everyone and I would keep young children away.

How many people on this thread lead ice climbs? How many believe that should be banned, because there is no way of preventing a dangerous or even fatal fall? In fact, there are no safety regulations on climbing per se, only equipment standards and standards for guiding climbers (which I have done).



Just curious.

I think the outdoors should be banned.
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post #26 of 38 Old 07-18-2018
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Re: Missing sailor on the Chester River

The photo of folks hiking out of the log canoe in this thread is from years ago - it shows up in image search as early as August, 2010. No photo credit but in 2010 a blog identified it as sailing at St Michaels, so it may be part of the CBMM collection.

When the photo originally appeared here I assumed it was a stock image to illustrate hiking on a log canoe. As the post was copied and pasted some may have believed it was a photo of the crew and boat involved in the event.

Edit - It could be the same boat, Mystery was built in 1932, refurbished over the years and is still racing. The crew in the photo appears from 2010 or earlier.

A photograph of Mystery is at the top of this report -


Body of missing boater recovered | Spotlight | stardem.com

Last edited by Dfok; 07-18-2018 at 05:53 PM. Reason: added info
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post #27 of 38 Old 07-18-2018
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Re: Missing sailor on the Chester River

We are all adults aren’t we?
Adults have choice don’t they?
Adults theoretically can read, and comprehend the dangers of going without a PFD can’t they?

Not sure why this concept is so hard to understand for some. She knew the risks and chose not to wear one. She has that right.
We all make small choices like this every day.

Are the PFD Police here saying she was at her own fault in her death?

Children however don’t have the above, so laws for them wearing them make sense.

It’s an accident...a tragedy...why speculate


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post #28 of 38 Old 07-18-2018
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Re: Missing sailor on the Chester River

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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
I agree with SeaStar here. It was pure speculation that she got trapped under the boat. (My speculation is that blunt force trauma to the head as the spars dragged past her is much more likely.) Until an investigation is completed and released (if it ever is), it's nothing but speculation. Meanwhile, using that speculation to justify the lack of a PFD is a disservice to those who may take that advice and choose not to wear a PFD. While there are possible scenarios where a PDF could be a detriment, the statistics are overwhelming that the chances of survival are much greater wearing a PFD than not wearing one. The right choice is clear.

Seeing all those people sitting on those spars without PFDs just turned my stomach. If someone here wants to attempt to explain why they should not have been wearing PFDs in that situation, I'm all ears.
Thanks for this post. Common sense is not all that common.

and I'll gladly take the heat for the following comment .....

In too many sailing events, alcohol is a factor (don't know anything of this specific event). Just a few days ago I watched a large number of sailboats load dozens of dock carts full of booze then take off on a non-stop, multi-day, 300 mile race. Upon return, no booze containers were deposited in our yacht clubs garbage bins and I saw no booze being unloaded. Am I making an erroneous assumption ?

The hysterical laughter you hear as you drive a way in your"new" boat ..... is the seller.

Last edited by boatpoker; 07-18-2018 at 08:02 PM.
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post #29 of 38 Old 07-18-2018
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Re: Missing sailor on the Chester River

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Thanks for this post. Common sense is not all that common.

and I'll gladly take the heat for the following comment .....

In too many sailing events, alcohol is a factor (don't know anything of this specific event). Just a few days ago I watched a large number of sailboats load dozens of dock carts full of booze then take off on a non-stop, multi-day, 300 mile race. Upon return, no booze containers were deposited in our yacht clubs garbage bins and I saw no booze being unloaded. Am I making an erroneous assumption ?
Yes, most likely you are. You have no evidence and that is some wild speculation.

The victim can't defend herself, the crew on the boat will be distraught for some time, the race committee and sponsors most likely are numb with grief.

Not every accident or incident is the result of "lack of common sense", stupidity, or a large number of sailboats load dozens of dock carts full of booze then take off on a non-stop, multi-day, 300 mile race.

**** happens. People die.
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Last edited by Dfok; 07-18-2018 at 08:54 PM.
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Re: Missing sailor on the Chester River

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
Thanks for this post. Common sense is not all that common.

and I'll gladly take the heat for the following comment .....

In too many sailing events, alcohol is a factor (don't know anything of this specific event). Just a few days ago I watched a large number of sailboats load dozens of dock carts full of booze then take off on a non-stop, multi-day, 300 mile race. Upon return, no booze containers were deposited in our yacht clubs garbage bins and I saw no booze being unloaded. Am I making an erroneous assumption ?
They poured out the booze and launched a boatload off message in a bottles....😄👍🌪


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