Missing sailor on the Chester River - Page 4 - SailNet Community
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post #31 of 38 Old 07-18-2018
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Re: Missing sailor on the Chester River

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Originally Posted by Dfok View Post
The photo of folks hiking out of the log canoe in this thread is from years ago - it shows up in image search as early as August, 2010. No photo credit but in 2010 a blog identified it as sailing at St Michaels, so it may be part of the CBMM collection.

When the photo originally appeared here I assumed it was a stock image to illustrate hiking on a log canoe. As the post was copied and pasted some may have believed it was a photo of the crew and boat involved in the event.

Edit - It could be the same boat, Mystery was built in 1932, refurbished over the years and is still racing. The crew in the photo appears from 2010 or earlier.

A photograph of Mystery is at the top of this report -


Body of missing boater recovered | Spotlight | stardem.com
Attached is a photo gallery of one of the 2017 races, including capsizes and many pictures of boats without a single PFD in sight. The photo I posted was in fact representative of current practice. I did not attempt to identify which boat it was, it was only offered as an example.

I have watched Mystery race. Fast and beautiful.

Gallery ? Chesapeake Bay Log canoe Racing




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post #32 of 38 Old 07-19-2018
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Re: Missing sailor on the Chester River

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Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
Just a few days ago I watched a large number of sailboats load dozens of dock carts full of booze then take off on a non-stop, multi-day, 300 mile race. Upon return, no booze containers were deposited in our yacht clubs garbage bins and I saw no booze being unloaded. Am I making an erroneous assumption ?
I don't know.... the assumption I want to make from this is that maybe you have too much time on your hands if you are inventorying what people take onto and off from their boats.
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post #33 of 38 Old 07-19-2018
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Re: Missing sailor on the Chester River

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I don't know.... the assumption I want to make from this is that maybe you have too much time on your hands if you are inventorying what people take onto and off from their boats.
Kinda hard to miss as they trundle past my boat.

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post #34 of 38 Old 07-19-2018
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Re: Missing sailor on the Chester River

The alcohol use on race boats isn't what it used to be. Back in the 1980's I raced on a boat that had a large open faced life raft compartment aft near transom. From the time the boat left the dock, the snacktician would be passing up beers to the crew and empty beer cans would be tossed the length of the cockpit into the life raft compartment. By mid race, there would be an avalanche of beer cans cascading across the life raft compartment. Everyone that I mentioned that to at the time would do a kind of knowing laugh, with some kind of been there done that comment.

But soon after that, the whole culture around racing and alcohol changed, as did the attitude about physical conditioning. As I think about it today, I cannot remember the last time I was in a race boat where people were drinking alcohol until after the race and often not even until the boat was put to bed.

Which is not to say that skippers and crew don't drink after a race. In fact it sometimes amazes me how much a small younger aged crew can consume in a very short time.

But the point that I am making is that despite the antique appearance of the Log Canoes, they are raced very seriously, and I would be very surprised if alcohol was a factor.

Jeff


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post #35 of 38 Old 07-19-2018
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Re: Missing sailor on the Chester River

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Originally Posted by travlin-easy View Post
You are so right, Jeff. A couple days ago I sailed a relatively short distance to the mouth of the Elk River and back to the marina, under 30 miles, single handed. When I got back to the Havre de Grace Basin where I would drop the sails, I noticed a tug hooking up to a pair of barges loaded with rip-rap. In my haste to get out of his way, I neglected to put on my inflatable PFD, which I usually wear when leaving the cockpit. Had the same guy that roared past me at a distance of 40 feet and pushing a 5-foot wake come by again I would have definitely went overboard and likely drowned.

I think the thing that concerned me about this particular, uncaring boater was that he also roared past Fishing Battery Island at the same speed and producing the same 5-foot wake, a location where at least 250 boats were anchored close to shore and lots of people in the water swimming, many between closely anchored boats. His wake could have easily caused the deaths of several innocent children and adults as those boats crashed together in his wake. This is so irresponsible, yet it seems to be a daily occurrence in the US.

Gary
t will take an incident like this, but one that has a great deal of tragedy and death, before the MSM takes notice and it will take multiple occurrences of this incident with death attached before anyone is willing to address the problem.

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post #36 of 38 Old 07-20-2018
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Re: Missing sailor on the Chester River

What is the problem that we're trying to address?

Non-use of PFDs? Reckless creation of large wakes? I don't even understand the wallythacker's statement. There's so much BS and self-induced hand-wringing in this thread.

- Water related deaths in Maryland are very high this year already, compared to previous year.
-BUT- there is no context. Has the number of boats on the water increased substantially? Decreased? Remained the same? Without this data, the "increase" in water/boating deaths is meaningless.

Example: The number of motorcycle deaths increased by number one year. There was much concern over this. Then, it was discovered that the motorcycle riding population had experienced high growth due to good economic conditions, so the PERCENTAGE of motorcycle deaths actually had decreased that year.

Next, let's break out the number of log canoe racing deaths.

- Of the boating population, the number of log canoes represents a tiny, tiny fraction so it's a safe assumption that no data has been collected on log canoe deaths.
- However, the log canoes race every year on the Chesapeake in numerous races and they've been racing for DECADES.
- Even within the tiny community of log canoe racing, the number of deaths related to log canoe racing is infinitesimal. This recent incident is the only mention of any fatality or injury that I can find, anywhere.

So let me see if I understand what some of you are barking about- You want some kind of regulation (mandatory PFD use, helmets, etc) of an extremely small, esoteric sport that has one recorded death or injury over DECADES of events? AND, you want that regulation when you don't even have any facts from an official investigation, without an official cause of death? We don't know if she died from drowning after being knocked unconscious from a spar impact, drowning from tangling in rigging, suffering a myocardial infarction from stress or any other thing.

This thread is full of cries for regulation without facts, and sanctimonious "tsk tsk-ing" and teeth sucking noises about alcohol, PFD use, helmet use, tether use. Straw man arguments comparing functional adult's choices vs. laws for minor children who obviously cannot make informed decisions for themselves. It simply boggles the mind. I broke the handle off of my shovel digging through the fecal matter in this thread.

Get a grip. A zero tolerance attitude towards "safety" is not rational, nor practical. People die. Sometimes people die even when all *reasonable* precautions have been taken. Sometimes those people are innocent children. Sometimes those people are beautiful, young women. Children and beautiful people make the loss seem worse. It's going to happen and no amount of legislation or "safety" will stop it.

You folks are all welcome to wrap yourself in bubblewrap and sit on your sofa if you like, but let the rest of us go out and live our lives without interference from crying mothers and congresspeople. I'd rather die tangled in log canoe rigging than sitting in front of my computer, barking at people for drinking or not wearing their PFD.

Jesus wept.
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post #37 of 38 Old 07-20-2018
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Re: Missing sailor on the Chester River

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajax_MD View Post
What is the problem that we're trying to address?

Non-use of PFDs? Reckless creation of large wakes? I don't even understand the wallythacker's statement. There's so much BS and self-induced hand-wringing in this thread.

- Water related deaths in Maryland are very high this year already, compared to previous year.
-BUT- there is no context. Has the number of boats on the water increased substantially? Decreased? Remained the same? Without this data, the "increase" in water/boating deaths is meaningless.

Example: The number of motorcycle deaths increased by number one year. There was much concern over this. Then, it was discovered that the motorcycle riding population had experienced high growth due to good economic conditions, so the PERCENTAGE of motorcycle deaths actually had decreased that year.

Next, let's break out the number of log canoe racing deaths.

- Of the boating population, the number of log canoes represents a tiny, tiny fraction so it's a safe assumption that no data has been collected on log canoe deaths.
- However, the log canoes race every year on the Chesapeake in numerous races and they've been racing for DECADES.
- Even within the tiny community of log canoe racing, the number of deaths related to log canoe racing is infinitesimal. This recent incident is the only mention of any fatality or injury that I can find, anywhere.

So let me see if I understand what some of you are barking about- You want some kind of regulation (mandatory PFD use, helmets, etc) of an extremely small, esoteric sport that has one recorded death or injury over DECADES of events? AND, you want that regulation when you don't even have any facts from an official investigation, without an official cause of death? We don't know if she died from drowning after being knocked unconscious from a spar impact, drowning from tangling in rigging, suffering a myocardial infarction from stress or any other thing.

This thread is full of cries for regulation without facts, and sanctimonious "tsk tsk-ing" and teeth sucking noises about alcohol, PFD use, helmet use, tether use. Straw man arguments comparing functional adult's choices vs. laws for minor children who obviously cannot make informed decisions for themselves. It simply boggles the mind. I broke the handle off of my shovel digging through the fecal matter in this thread.

Get a grip. A zero tolerance attitude towards "safety" is not rational, nor practical. People die. Sometimes people die even when all *reasonable* precautions have been taken. Sometimes those people are innocent children. Sometimes those people are beautiful, young women. Children and beautiful people make the loss seem worse. It's going to happen and no amount of legislation or "safety" will stop it.

You folks are all welcome to wrap yourself in bubblewrap and sit on your sofa if you like, but let the rest of us go out and live our lives without interference from crying mothers and congresspeople. I'd rather die tangled in log canoe rigging than sitting in front of my computer, barking at people for drinking or not wearing their PFD.

Jesus wept.
Amen.

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post #38 of 38 Old 07-20-2018
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Re: Missing sailor on the Chester River

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajax_MD View Post
What is the problem that we're trying to address?

Non-use of PFDs? Reckless creation of large wakes? I don't even understand the wallythacker's statement. There's so much BS and self-induced hand-wringing in this thread.

- Water related deaths in Maryland are very high this year already, compared to previous year.
-BUT- there is no context. Has the number of boats on the water increased substantially? Decreased? Remained the same? Without this data, the "increase" in water/boating deaths is meaningless.

Example: The number of motorcycle deaths increased by number one year. There was much concern over this. Then, it was discovered that the motorcycle riding population had experienced high growth due to good economic conditions, so the PERCENTAGE of motorcycle deaths actually had decreased that year.

Next, let's break out the number of log canoe racing deaths.

- Of the boating population, the number of log canoes represents a tiny, tiny fraction so it's a safe assumption that no data has been collected on log canoe deaths.
- However, the log canoes race every year on the Chesapeake in numerous races and they've been racing for DECADES.
- Even within the tiny community of log canoe racing, the number of deaths related to log canoe racing is infinitesimal. This recent incident is the only mention of any fatality or injury that I can find, anywhere.

So let me see if I understand what some of you are barking about- You want some kind of regulation (mandatory PFD use, helmets, etc) of an extremely small, esoteric sport that has one recorded death or injury over DECADES of events? AND, you want that regulation when you don't even have any facts from an official investigation, without an official cause of death? We don't know if she died from drowning after being knocked unconscious from a spar impact, drowning from tangling in rigging, suffering a myocardial infarction from stress or any other thing.

This thread is full of cries for regulation without facts, and sanctimonious "tsk tsk-ing" and teeth sucking noises about alcohol, PFD use, helmet use, tether use. Straw man arguments comparing functional adult's choices vs. laws for minor children who obviously cannot make informed decisions for themselves. It simply boggles the mind. I broke the handle off of my shovel digging through the fecal matter in this thread.

Get a grip. A zero tolerance attitude towards "safety" is not rational, nor practical. People die. Sometimes people die even when all *reasonable* precautions have been taken. Sometimes those people are innocent children. Sometimes those people are beautiful, young women. Children and beautiful people make the loss seem worse. It's going to happen and no amount of legislation or "safety" will stop it.

You folks are all welcome to wrap yourself in bubblewrap and sit on your sofa if you like, but let the rest of us go out and live our lives without interference from crying mothers and congresspeople. I'd rather die tangled in log canoe rigging than sitting in front of my computer, barking at people for drinking or not wearing their PFD.

Jesus wept.

Another hand ringer camoflouged by bubble wrap from the opposite direction. My friend it makes you no different from the other posters.

My call was for no condemnations of speculative theory’s of why it happened since no one really knows
My call was for empathy for the death and tragedy, it makes no difference wether it statistically is insignificant or not.
My call was as Jeff stated this is something which happened to a real person.

Who cares why.
Sorrow doesn’t need to find an explaination for the cause of the sorrow.


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